Expansion teams in an existing league

[SBG]

Hi there! I'll try to make a long story short...

We started a four-team league that played a 12-game season, semis and final game. We have yet to play the semis and final, but we can already assume that at least two teams will be a 200+ TR team.

Two, possibly three new teams wish to join. Some coaches argue that the handicap rolls aren't enough to balance things out. My opinion is that expansion teams always suffer when they enter a league, whatever the sport is.

One coach suggested that they start with 1.1 million instead of the original million. I don't like this idea, but we'll vote on it between the two seasons.

Here's what I'll suggest : enter an eighth team played by anyone but not by anybody in particular (a funny one, like halflings or goblins , have two divisions (the four "old" teams and the four expansion ones), play 13 games instead of 12. In the thriteen games, you would play three games against every team from your division and one game against every team from the other division. At the end of the season, the first two places form each division get in the playoffs. The season after, the four teams that made the playoffs are regrouped in the same division, while the four that didn't make it are regrouped together.

Any thoughts or ideas?

Fred

[Longshot]

i think you play too much games with too less teams...
advices: half of your league is new with a big diff of TR and experience i guess===>everybody start a new team

[Dangerous Dave]

My experience of games with big TR differences are that normally the Handicap rolls do not give the lower rated team a sufficient leg up. However, if you get several rolls where players miss the game or are delayed then the match can be quite even. If you get some cheerleaders and winn the toss, then you will lose!

So I don't recommend that the rookie teams play the experienced teams immediately.

Since the play-offs have not yet been played, why not get some games under the belts of the rookie teams before the new season starts. They can either play amongst themselves or against some rookie teams that could be played by any of the other coaches. This way each of the new teams may get 1 or 2 games under their belts.

Alternatively you could all start with fresh rosters and keep the experienced teams in reserve for a later season.

Another way may be to promote any team with a TR of greater than 200 (pick whatever level you want) to a Premier League. These teams are there to be challenged by other teams - with extra prizes if a lower ranked team beats them. Perhaps one of these teams could play off against the winner of the Play Offs in season 2.


Dave

[Acerak]

I like Dave's suggestion: let the smaller teams play a few games against each other while the older teams are away at the play-offs.

Some of your problems might be related to the scheduled format. If Rookie Team A HAS to play Experienced Team B at some point during the season, then that team is going to have problems. Allowing the rookies to play some "pre-season" games to get their feet wet is one way to help this problem.

Hey, why not run an "expansion draft"? Allow each experienced team to protect four players. The others can all be bought off the rosters at a straight price. So if an unprotected Human Blitzer comes with 6 SPPs and Mighty Blow, your expansion Human team can buy him for 90,000 gold pieces, straight up, right off the experienced team's roster when he builds his team. Each team is allowed to protect one more player for every player they lose in the draft. They're also given a rookie replacement for free.

Granted, you might get a few teams angling for other team's stars, and if there's no rookie Undead team, for example, then the experienced Undead team won't lose anything.

So why not try this? Same as before - each team can protect four players - but everyone else is replaced by rookies. Let the rookie teams buy players if you'd like, but otherwise, the EXPERIENCED teams repurchase their rosters. They can buy the "old hands" at regular price, but have to squeeze re-rolls and such into the roster. (This might be a hindrance to the team that wins the title, because they lose a bit of money. You could always give them a free TRR to represent the trophy, or simply give them more starting money.)

Anyway, there are a lot of ways you can handle this. The Handicap table isn't the only recourse.

Have fun!

-Chet

[Longshot]

be carefull:
playing with always the same opponents (teams) is not good.

[OutRigger]

our league is making a similar expansion as well. 10 teams which played a round robing style season. 3 games left for the last regulation week.

Its looking like 3 for sure maybe 4 will join the league. Another 3 or 4 want to start a new team to experiment with a diff race. The top 4 do not want to dissolve their team at, and I can't say that I blame them.

We've considered taking the avg. team rating after the bowl season and multiply that number(rounded for ez math) by 1,000 gp and adding that to the 1mill starting gp for the new/rebooted teams.

Another option we are thinking about is this. It will be late Aug or early Sept before we start season 2. We may let the new teams(and anyone interested in experimenting) play during the offseason, a preset number of games against whoever they like. This (I hope) will give the rookies some experience with gameplay and beef up thier team's SPP numbers and winnings ect.

Other than that.....

any thoughts on how this could be better?

[Renegade]

We have a league of 8 people at my store, and our league seasons will be about 5 weeks long. We already have newer players (some new to Blood Bowl altogether) Eyeing our league, and wanting to join.
At the end of the season, and before the start of the next season, we will have events like all-star games and The Crush. Before the new season starts, everyone must fill out a new team roster.

It seems that most people in the league like the idea of averaging the TR of all the teams from the last season, multiplying it times 10,000, and making that the amount everyone gets to start a NEW team with.

For Example, Average TR = 150 = 1,500,000 Gold for every player in the league to start their new team.

Keep the same name as your "old" team if you are keeping the same team, and not changing to some other race. Then, you can buy your "old" Players for your "new" team by paying 10,000 extra gold for each 10 SPPs (also, if the player has a number of SPPs not divisable by 10, you round up to 10 SPP for the purpose of finding out his cost).

So For Example, My Team, Beat-yo-face Squad, has a Lineman named Beatyo Uglyface that has 43 SPPs, I could buy him for my "new" team. He would have 43 SPP when I wrote him into my new roster, and he would cost an additional 50,000. At 43 SPPs, he will have 3 skills rolled into him, and very well could be a good stable part of this new season's team. I write Beatyo Uglyface into my new Season's roster for the Beat-yo-face Squad.

This way you can keep those familiar faces you've grown to love, so you can scream the same things your friends remember you screaming when you are making plays "Ok Jojo Beans, you can do this you turd! If you do this, there is a PBJ sandwich waiting for you in the dugout!"

Developed teams will only really lose a small part of what they like about their team, and new teams will get a leg up with the extra money. Couple this plan with a few pre-season events like The Crush and/or Drafting of some stars with a small amount of SPPs, like around 20, and you have what I think everyone can agree is a fair way to continue your Team's Ascension to greatness


Whaddya think?

[High & Mighty]

For Example, Average TR = 150 = 1,500,000 Gold for every player in the league to start their new team.

Maybe I just think too deviously but wouldn't that give an incentive for any current team whose TR is below average to just scratch their current team and start anew with more money? (Which in turn lowers the average again.) Why not let new teams have a TR equal to the lowest current team?

[Renegade]

Maybe I just think too deviously but wouldn't that give an incentive for any current team whose TR is below average to just scratch their current team and start anew with more money? (Which in turn lowers the average again.)

Well, we are just a bunch of buds, noone pulling anything really. And what you suggest really isn't that big of a deal in an existing league system. (I don't think) That is the option left for any coach in this system. But taking more models for your team does not neccessarily mean that that would be better then taking a few of your best Stars with you to your new team, and taking less guys.

One thing I forgot to mention from above: You can't buy more Fan Factor and new Rerolls will cost double if you are an existing team.

The Average TR for every person in the league will likely be within 10 TR of everyone else.

Also, this is ALL just theory I have yet to use it, but in our ABBL league, we will be upon these rules in about 5 weeks.

Why not let new teams have a TR equal to the lowest current team?

Why let only new players take advantage of the strategy you mentioned before? If a coach in this league feels they want a clean slate, and don't want to pay 30,000 more for a player with a couple skill advancements, then that is what they can do.

What you bring up does make me think though....possibly my SPP to gp equation needs to be reworked better. Maybe 10 SPP(rounded up to the nearest 10) = 10,000 gp does not work out cleanly. Hmmmmm.....

[OutRigger]

try the average TR x 10,000gp. Then add that to the 1,000,000 starting gp.

ie...avg TR = 146 x 1,000gp = 146,000gp + 1,000,000gp = 1,146,000

Use rounding up or down as you see fit to set beforehand.

If you have time take the 1.5 mill like you were talking about and buy re-rolls at reg price and FF at reg cost ect. and just take a gander at the team you can build. You'll be forgetting about your old team pretty quick i'd imagine. That is why we have tried to think of every other thing under the sun on this stuff. Luckily, I think we may be in the same boat that it's just some buds together in the league and that not much rule manipulation is going on really.

[OutRigger]

be carefull:
playing with always the same opponents (teams) is not good.

I'm curious what you were replying to, longshot?

[NightDragon]

Just raeding through this thread and a lot of the ideas seem very good to me and I will probably use one myself. Ofcourse by scrapping the extra MVP rolls that teams used to get catching up with more experienced teams is now a real problem. DD.

[Oderus Orungus]

In my leage, new teams get 10 mvp rolls and 10d6 x 10000 gold
seems to have worked fine, cept for the new wood elf team who only has 1 loss the entire 14 game season