Pt 2 of thoughts on League Rules - Skills

[Samael]

Continuing my epic of league rules I've played with, I am curious on your opin of these changes and additions.

Skills

Claw and Razor Claws are once again seperate skills within the Mutation Skill list

Crab Claw (M): +2 to all Armour rolls

Razor Claws/Fangs (M): +2 to all Injury rolls (the 2d6 roll not the 11d6)

Mighty Blow: Grants a +1 to both Armour AND Injury Rolls. Stacks with Claws and Razor Claws for a bonus of up to +3. Taking and using this skill requires a Current Str score of 3+ (Meaning a Goblin with a 3 Str can take it, and an Orc with a Str of 2 can not take it, or use it if it was already purchased).

Dirty Player: Grants a +1 to both Armour AND Injury Rolls. Also stacks with Claws and Razor Claws, but only up to a max of +3 before assists for either roll.

Leader is a General Skill (anyone may take it), as, in real sports, anyone can exhibit leadership.

Always Hungry (E): Can be awarded as a negative trait from the chaos gods for winning the Chaosbowl, It can only be given to a Big Guy in this manner though (Including players that have been gifted with Big Guy from winning the Chaosbowl)

Break Tackle May be used multiple times per turn but incurs a cumulative -1 penalty for every roll after the first.

Diving Catch: The Player using this skill ends his turn in the square the ball would normally pass through (or his current square if that square is occupied) on the ground, this is not a turnover and no Armour or Injury roll is made, whether his attempt is successful or not. It may be used on the opponents turn, to intercept, and if successful, causes a turnover.

Grab requires a current ST of 3+ (like Mighty Blow) to take / use.

Horns bonus always applies to the second block on a Frenzy follow-up, if the player wishes to use them.

Hypnotic Gaze (E): A player using this skill may not throw a block in the same turn as using it. Also, it is available as a reward from participating in the Chaos Cup, from Slaanesh.

Multiple Block: When the first block is made, modify the Defenders ST by only one (instead of 2) in addition to any other modifiers. The second Block is made with the +2 to the defender's ST (+ any other modifiers).

Prehensile Tail: This does stack with other Prehensile tails if the doging player is in both tackle zones.

Regeneration (E): When rolling to heal injuries a 1 always fails, a 2-3 heals Knock-out results or lowers the Injury Result (except Death) by one category (Stat damage becomes a niggling injury, Niggling injury becomes miss next game, miss next game becomes miss current game, Miss Current game becomes K.O.), 4-5 lowers the Injury result (Including Death) by two categories to a minimum of Knocked Out, a 6 causes the injury to completely heal and the player is ready to get back out on the Pitch at the next kick-off. Additionally, this gives a bonus of +1 to any "Knocked Out" recovery Rolls. SPPs are awarded based on the original injury the player received, not on the result after regeneration. Regeneration is also available on the Mutation Skill list, for teams taking part in the Chaosbowl.

Right Stuff (A) This skill is an agility based skill but may only be taken by Stunty or Titchy players.

Spikes (M): Subtract one from all injury rolls against a player with this mutation. Add +1 to a defending players Strength, with this trait, when he is hit with a blitz, and if the resulting block ends with the "Attacker Down" add +1 to the Armour & Injury rolls. This does not stack with the skill Mighty Blow, the player must choose which skill he uses when the block is thrown against him (though the choice is a fair no-brainer). New Skill

Stand Firm (S) In addition, the player does not fall over if he fails a Dodge roll. Although the player
stays on his feet, he must stay in the square he was dodging too. His action ends and
he may do nothing else that turn. A turnover, however, does not take place.

Stunty is back in the Mutation skill list.

Take Root (E) Team-mates MAY block this player in an attempt to cancel it's affects... However, there is no pulling of punches, as it takes a great deal of effort in knocking this player down, and it won't be without resistance. To reflect this, The Opposing coach determines which Block die is chosen (if more than one is used) when attempting this. Armour and Injuries are rolled as normal, and if either the attacker AND/OR defender are knocked down then a turn-over is caused. Additionally, a player that has taken root has +1 ST when defending against a block.

Thick-Skull (S): When a player with this trait is knocked out The player is instead stunned. The knocked out player's coach decides if he wants to pull him off the pitch and putting him immediately in the reserves box (awarding 1 SPP for the casualty), or leaving him on the field in the stunned position (no SPP is awarded for the casualty)

Throw Team-Mate (S) is a ST skill. Must have a minimum ST of 3 and be a "Big Guy" to throw a Titchy player. A ST 4 and "Big Guy" is required to also throw Stunty players.

Titchy (M) Titchy is a mutation, but the player must be stunty to take Titchy.

Wild Animal (E) If 2 rolls are failed in successive turns, this character enter an uncontrollable Blood Rage until the next touchdown, Halftime or the End of the Game (whichever is first - at which point the player storms into the crowd and takes his Anger-management issues out on them), refusing to leave the pitch, (counting against the owner's number of players on the field) and attacking the closest standing player (whether friend or foe) within his MA (+GFI range, which they must use if necessarry) with a Frenzied Blitz action, as if they possessed the Frenzy skill (if they didn't already). If no players are standing within his MA(+GFI) range he will foul the closest player to him. If the Ref sees this and attempts to throw him off the field the Ref is attacked and brutally mauled, resulting in the game being played without a Ref until the half ends (meaning no fouls will be called against either team), This player is suspended for the rest of the current game (if it happened in the first half) AND his next game however (after the stoppage in play), if the offense ocurred during an official league game. Additionally this team is fined by the league (or sued by the family) for d6x10,000 gold for the loss of the Referee, regardless of what type of game was being played (Special-Rules Exhibitions exclusions do exist however, along with exclusions for Death and Chaosbowls). These actions do not count against the blitz action for the team. Tackle Zones for this character are also unbiased, applying to both team-mates and opponents on any turn he fails his Animal Urges, also lending an assist to both sides. This character is the first one to move, if Raging, on the owner's team, after the turn counter is moved, and an Illegal procedure may be called if this is not done. A raging character always takes it's turn however, and may not use team or leader re-rolls while raging. Anytime a raging Wild Animal attacks it's own team, and a knock-down is the result roll a d6 after Armour and Injuries are worked out, on a 1-4 the team's turn ends as they were so disconcerted from the unexpected attack at the wrong time, on a 5-6 the team has trained with this animal so much it anticipated the attack and is able to recover, taking the remainder of it's turn as normal, so long as no IPs were called.
In the event of multiple players being equidistant to the raging player, roll a d6 for each player and high roll wins (...umm, not really, but he does get railed by one hell of a block). If the raging character has the ST advantage, The die chosen is always the one least beneficial to the defender. i.e. If a both down & defender stumbles result is rolled, and the defender has dodge but neither player has block, the both down die is used.

Daemonic Aura (E) No modifiers, whether positive or negative, (i.e. Mighty blow or Dirty Player, foul assists) are applied to armour rolls against a character with this trait. It is possible to attain this skill from winning the Chaosbowl, in which case the players current unmodified (except by SP rolls) armor becomes his Demonic Aura Rating, up to a max of 8 (9 for Tzeentch gifted auras). Players may increase their AV up to the max of 8, or 9 if Tzeentch, through SP rolls only, if their rating is currently below this.

Were- (E) A character with this trait begins each game With the appropriate stats and the skills Razor Claws, Frenzy, Regeneration and Revert to Human. Regeneration rolls always take place before a character Reverts to human Form.

Revert to Human (E) A character with this trait who receives an injury listed at Knocked out or worse, BEFORE any regeneration or apothecary rolls are made, becomes a human lineman for the rest of the game, additionally he loses any special skills granted to him by the trait Were-, regardless of the regeneration / apothecary results. If a character reverts to Human Form in the first half of a game roll a d6 at the half (or before any overtime periods begin), on a 5-6 the Character turns back into his Werecreature of type and regains his original stats and skills associated with it (until knocked out again).

Off For A Bite (E): Roll a D6 for each player with this skill each time you want to set them up on the pitch. On a roll of 3-6 they can be set up normally, but on a roll of 1-2 they’ve popped into the crowd to bite the lily-white neck of an attractive maiden – and who can blame them! (steady, Jervis! – Ed), and can’t be used this drive.

Team Player (G) - A player possessing this skill is counted as being on the teams player list (or as an ally for cross-faction hires, though 1 FF is still lost). Loners and Wild Animals may not take this skill. New Skill

Split Essence (E) - Possessed mainly by Pink Horrors of Tzeentch, When a player with this skill is severely injured (any roll on the d68 table), it pops two lesser creatures, Blue Horrors, into existence, one in the original position of the Pink Horror, the other scatters d6 spaces (if that square is occupied the Blue Horror goes into the closest Unoccupied square on it's scatter path, and is knocked down, as is the player in the occupying square, make injury rolls for both). As long as one of these Blue Horrors finishes the game, the Pink Horror returns for the next game uninjured. If both these Blue Horrors die then so does the Pink Horror. Any d68 roll "kills" a Blue Horror banishing it's essence back to the Chaos Realms.If the pink horror was holding the ball it scatters three times.

Glider (E) - A player with this skill, and equipped with the proper kit, has the ability to steer himself as he flies toward his target destination, after being launched (usually by a team-mate. He can correct his flight path should he veer away from the target. If the destination is off target, he may attempt to head back towards the original target. Roll a D6 and move the distance back towards the target the number of squares indicated by the roll. If this amount is more than the distance back to the target, he has may land in any square up to the new destination square (the full distance of the roll).

Annoying (E) - The Snotlings aboard the Pump Wagon have the unique ability to annoy any adjacent player with their assorted sling-shots, poky sticks, or thrown objects, into a distracted enraged immobility. The Snotlings may do this either before or after the Pump Wagon has moved. Annoying other players is a free action, and does not interfere with any other actions the Pump Wagon might do. The Snotlings may annoy any, or all adjacent opposing players. Choose the first player the Snotlings attempting to annoy and roll a D6. If the score is greater than the victim’s Agility, then the victim is Annoyed and loses their tackle zone for the rest of the Team Turn. If the score of the die is less than or equal to the opponent’s Agility then the Snotlings have failed to annoy their victim. Subsequent players the Snotlings attempt to annoy during the same turn are subject to a cumulative -1 modifier on their Agility roll (e.g. -1 for second player, -2 for third player, etc...), which represents the diminished efforts of the little buggers to concentrate their annoying efforts on more than one player.

Wings (E) - Gifted by Tzeentch as a reward for winning the Chaosbowl, a character who is given this gift adds +1 to his MA and gains the Leap skill as long as the weather is not pouring rain or a blizzard (or similar effects for cold weather teams).

Big Guy (E) - A trait used to describe any Humanoid roughly double, or more, the size and mass of a Human, Such as Ogres, Trolls and Minotaurs (Ohh My!). This Trait may also be gifted by any of the Chaos Gods as a reward for winning the Chaos Bowl, which adds 1 to the characters ST, and does not count to the max +2 a character can go over his original ST rating (Max total is still 10 however). A player with this skill may also get the Throw Team-Mate skill from the Strength list. Additionally, a player that is gifted with this trait does not count against either the Big Guy limit, or Ally count, of a team who has his original position in it's player list (A Big Guy Human Lineman counts as a normal Human lineman on human teams but a "Big Guy" ally for all others). Daemons and Already big players and may not get this trait again, including Trolls, Minotaurs, Ogres, Rat Ogres, Bull Centaurs and the like which are already considered to have this trait.

Statuesque (E) - A negative trait gifted at the whim, or displeasure, of Khorne & Slaanesh from winning the Chaosbowl. A character with this trait has bones and joints fuse, whether from turning into more of a weapon (for Khorne) or from becoming a living artwork (for Slaanesh), and finds it increasingly difficult to move with grace. A Player receiving this brutal trait loses 1 from his MA permanently and incurrs a -1 to all Catch, Intercept and Pick-up the Ball rolls.

Rage of the Bloodgod (E) - A negative trait gifted by Khorne. A player with this skill finds he is unable to control his anger off the pitch, and is constantly picking fights wherever he is. Before each game he is eligible to play in, roll a d6 for a player with this trait on the Agility Table, using the Characters ST as his effective agility. On a failed roll (1 always fails) he picked a fight with the wrong person before the game (The player may not have lost, but he sure didn't win), however, and must make a roll on the d68 injury table, applying the effect to this game only (unless death is the result, which is permanent).

Seething Spite (E) - A negative trait gifted by Khorne. The player with this skill is touched by the bloodgod in such a way that constructive criticism & pointing out short-commings are viewed as personal attacks against him, which makes for very rough team practices. Before every game this player is eligible to play in roll a d6 and on a 1-4 the team loses a team re-roll for that game, a 5-6 means that the team had a relatively clean practice week and does not lose the re-roll.

Visage of The Bloodgod (E) - A gift given by Khorne for winning the Chaosbowl. A player with this trait takes on the appearance and feel of a Warlord who has won many battles and is bigger and tougher than he may actually be. Treat this trait the same as Disturbing Presence.

Chaos Armor (E) - A gift given by Khorne for winning the Chaosbowl. The player who receives this gift finds his skin turn into a magical living metal that offers more protection than almost any other substance known to the world. A player with this trait gains +2 AV and -1 MA (to a max of 10 and a min of 1).

Touched by the Bloodgod (E) - A gift given by Khorne for winning the Chaosbowl. The player who receives this gift becomes like a berserker, being able to enter into a "controlled" rage when in combat. Player gains +1 ST, -1 AG and Frenzy.

Off For A ...? (E) - A negative trait gifted by Slaanesh. A player with this trait becomes so obsessed with the pleasures off the flesh he is not always available for kickoffs, as he is off enjoying said flesh (whether alone or with other(s) is perhaps a question better left unanswered). Treat this exactly the same as Off for a Bite.

Prima-Donna (E) - A negative trait gifted by Slaanesh. The Character has so much ego it starts to dirupt practices. Treat this the same as Seething Spite.

Aura of Slaanesh (E) - A gift given by Slaanesh for winning the Chaosbowl. Players find it difficult to act with hostility toward a player with this skill, as he can make adults weep he is so beautiful. At the start of this player's turn roll a d6, on a result of 5-6 no players may exert tackle zones against this player or assist in blocks against this player, until he throws a block or his next turn (if he doesn't roll another 5 or 6).

One-Eye (E) - A negative trait gifted by Nurgle. A player gifted with this trait by Nurgle finds his Eyes have combined in the center of his head, much like a plague-bearer, and his depth-perception is no longer what it once was. A player with this trait infers a -1 to all catch and interception rolls.

Nurgle's Rot (E) - A negative trait gifted by Nurgle. A player gifted with this trait has contracted one of Nurgle's many rotting diseases and is thus more prone to injuries. Everytime a player with this skill is injured roll on the injury list twice and apply the worst result.

Nurgle's Touch (E) - A gift given by Nurgle for winning the Chaosbowl. The player granted this gift is able to infect others with Nurgle's lesser creations. Instead of making a block, the player with this skill may instead try to touch the other player and Incapacitate him with a minor Illness. This player and the target each roll a d6 and adds their AG and any legal assists to the roll, if the player with this skill beats the defending player (a tie is a win for the defender), treat that defending player as having suffered a knockout (Regardless of Regen or Thick Skull). Neither a casualty nor SPP is scored for this however.

[stashman]

Is this suggested or are you and some friends really playing with these rules???

[Samael]

Haven't tested yet, but what I'm considering playing with if i start my own league, with friends.

The biggest switches are putting MB on par with DP, and Wild Animal, which is closer to the orignal idea of it.

The (E) stuff at the end will be pretty rare, since you need to win the Chaosbowl, and Chaos gods loving random chaos only have about a 1 in 8 chance of gifting the better powers, may add wild animal to Rage though.

What's so "off" about them? o.O

Shock and vagueness do little to help in further molding or dropping things.

[SillySod]

Making all those modifiers stack pushes up the value of mutations a huge amount. Upgrading mighty blow is very powerful for those teams with significant amounts on strength access.

It will really depend on how many games each team gets but if the chaos (all having strength and mutation access) are well played you will start to find a significant disparity between them and other teams which grows as they play more games.

[Samael]

pretty sure mutations have always stacked.

Though maybe I should lower the bonus to only +1 to their respective rolls. Brings it more in line with usefulness and bonus as MP/DP.

For comparison that change would look like this...

MB +1 to Armor/Injury rolls from blocking only
DP +1 to armor/Injury rolls from fouling only
Claws +1 to any Armor roll
RSC/F +1 to any injury roll

happy middle ground, no?

To the second part of that comment, with the exception of elves, every team has someone able to access ST skills, many of these teams have 1/4+ of their roster able to access it, and some of them already start with MB... so it should even out a bit, bruiser teams will really bruise, but well-rounded teams will have their scary goons too.

Though, additionally... I did just notice a major change in LRB5 after re-perusing it...seeing as I grew up in LRB3 days and haven't touched BB much since then... just noticed they made Mutations a normal roll, not a double roll for SP rolls... that is a big change and can unbalance with the old school claw and RSC/F rules indeed... my oversight. The mod above is better though, correct? even with stacking (also, haven't posted my tournament changes yet, but I also made mutations available to Chaosbowl participants on a doubles roll, so everyone does have access, even if it's rarer)

[Kyrel]

I'll admit that I haven't gone through all of the skills you mention initially, but I'll throw in a c. anyway.

Drop the stacking of skills. Even in 3rd ed. the different skill modifiers didn't stack in general. The reason is quite simply that it becomes too stupid/deadly. Only one skill at a time can modify a single dice roll has been the norm since a Q&A under 3rd ed.

[Jural]

I'll admit that I haven't gone through all of the skills you mention initially, but I'll throw in a c. anyway.

Drop the stacking of skills. Even in 3rd ed. the different skill modifiers didn't stack in general. The reason is quite simply that it becomes too stupid/deadly. Only one skill at a time can modify a single dice roll has been the norm since a Q&A under 3rd ed.

Modifiers all stack now in LRB 5... but the skills were re-tooled (Claw, Mighty Blow, etc.) If Samael moves back to the LRB 4 or 3 mechanics... he should really not allow those skills to stack.

[whitetiger]

I like the Wild Animal skill. I used to have Minos in 3rd ed days. Glad we used the rules to lose nega traits. Had a Mino bowl over some of my own players until he got trained.

[SillySod]

pretty sure mutations have always stacked.

They stacked in LRB4 but with a maximum of +2 to an armour or injury roll. Claw and RSC only affected armour and injury rolls from blocks rather than fouling. The removal of the limit and potential combination with MB/DP looks like it might be beyond evil, claw/RSC players are scary enough with the limit

To the second part of that comment, with the exception of elves, every team has someone able to access ST skills, many of these teams have 1/4+ of their roster able to access it, and some of them already start with MB... so it should even out a bit, bruiser teams will really bruise, but well-rounded teams will have their scary goons too.

A team with a with the potential to take more of the skill will naturally gain more from this boost, especially teams that take the skill early anyway. However this is just a change of focus in your game... you might want that but you should be aware of it.

MB +1 to Armor/Injury rolls from blocking only
DP +1 to armor/Injury rolls from fouling only
Claws +1 to any Armor roll
RSC/F +1 to any injury roll

Though, additionally... I did just notice a major change in LRB5 after re-perusing it...seeing as I grew up in LRB3 days and haven't touched BB much since then... just noticed they made Mutations a normal roll, not a double roll for SP rolls... that is a big change and can unbalance with the old school claw and RSC/F rules indeed... my oversight. The mod above is better though, correct? even with stacking (also, haven't posted my tournament changes yet, but I also made mutations available to Chaosbowl participants on a doubles roll, so everyone does have access, even if it's rarer)

That system might work nicely. I think it will be pretty violent but it clearly makes the mutation access very useful while keeping the mutations slightly below the level of normal skills.

I'd be in favour of keeping DP at +2 but depending on what rules you end up using for the ref

Just as an asside.... I would encourage you to add a rule where a stunty player is never knocked down on a POW! result regardless of of whether the blocker has tackle or not. This is just something that helps keep stunty races playable in a league which includes some dwarf teams

[Kyrel]

Modifiers all stack now in LRB 5... but the skills were re-tooled (Claw, Mighty Blow, etc.) If Samael moves back to the LRB 4 or 3 mechanics... he should really not allow those skills to stack.

Ups. Missed that one. Thanks for the info

[GreedySmurf]

I've only skimmed most of them, but just to say with that Wild Animal rule, I would be very surprised if anyone ever has one on their team.

It immediately makes any BG with Wild Animal several orders of magnitude worse than the Stupid or Really Stupid BG's.

[Samael]

pretty sure mutations have always stacked.

They stacked in LRB4 but with a maximum of +2 to an armour or injury roll. Claw and RSC only affected armour and injury rolls from blocks rather than fouling. The removal of the limit and potential combination with MB/DP looks like it might be beyond evil, claw/RSC players are scary enough with the limit

A big reason I did it that way was, one of the first skills any bruiser takes is Mighty Blow, and / or Dirty Player. In old-school rules Claw and RSC/F gave better benefits than these skills but were only allowed on doubles.
Thus a Coach was left with a suck-ass decision to make... Buy MB and DP early or wait and pray for a doubles roll, as, if these skills didn't stack and you had a player with all 4, you wasted at least one if not 2 of your 4 SP rolls. I don't think there is any other situations in BB where one skill completely obsoletes another in every use, except in the case of these skills.

To the second part of that comment, with the exception of elves, every team has someone able to access ST skills, many of these teams have 1/4+ of their roster able to access it, and some of them already start with MB... so it should even out a bit, bruiser teams will really bruise, but well-rounded teams will have their scary goons too.

A team with a with the potential to take more of the skill will naturally gain more from this boost, especially teams that take the skill early anyway. However this is just a change of focus in your game... you might want that but you should be aware of it.

I'm aware, and kinda' want to playtest it to see how it works out, but for a chaos team, where I believe this was brought up as an issue, yes everyone has ST & Mutation access, but no one starts with anything except for a ST of 4 (3/4s of which are only on blitzes), so a chaos player would have to sacrifice his first SP roll to take MB, whereas most other team's blitzers are already moving on to some other skill, guard, or block for instance, since they already have it.

MB +1 to Armor/Injury rolls from blocking only
DP +1 to armor/Injury rolls from fouling only
Claws +1 to any Armor roll
RSC/F +1 to any injury roll

Though, additionally... I did just notice a major change in LRB5 after re-perusing it...seeing as I grew up in LRB3 days and haven't touched BB much since then... just noticed they made Mutations a normal roll, not a double roll for SP rolls... that is a big change and can unbalance with the old school claw and RSC/F rules indeed... my oversight. The mod above is better though, correct? even with stacking (also, haven't posted my tournament changes yet, but I also made mutations available to Chaosbowl participants on a doubles roll, so everyone does have access, even if it's rarer)

That system might work nicely. I think it will be pretty violent but it clearly makes the mutation access very useful while keeping the mutations slightly below the level of normal skills.

I'd be in favour of keeping DP at +2 but depending on what rules you end up using for the ref

Just as an asside.... I would encourage you to add a rule where a stunty player is never knocked down on a POW! result regardless of of whether the blocker has tackle or not. This is just something that helps keep stunty races playable in a league which includes some dwarf teams

Actually think it puts the mutations on the same level since MB and DP are situational but apply to both rolls, where Claw and RSC/F are always on but only work on 1 type of roll. But it was either that or step on "Piling On"s toes by giving the mutated player the ability to re-roll Armor (Claw) and Injury (RSC/F) rolls without having to go prone.

I like DP rules either way, just figured I'd average it so you can't too easily manipulate an easy injury, and open mutations up to having a little more use. Fouling a Wood Elf with 3 assists for instance, why would you ever burn the DP bonus on that armour roll? just burn the re-roll on the very slim failure chance.

I scaled deaths back some in a previous installment, to compensate a little for the slightly deadlier bent in my other rules. It takes a roll of 65-68 for a death, and 61-64 is stat losses, so deaths should be a little rarer, even for stunties (The 50s are all niggling injuries).

I've only skimmed most of them, but just to say with that Wild Animal rule, I would be very surprised if anyone ever has one on their team.

It immediately makes any BG with Wild Animal several orders of magnitude worse than the Stupid or Really Stupid BG's.

That's part of the issue with it though, in LRB 5 it's just bone-head under a different name. no point for it to be in existence as a seperate skill except for flavor.
The original old-school rules were similar to my modification, but was too incredibly easy to manipulate and end up getting two blitz actions in a round if you failed the roll, or at least I think that's what the Dev's felt and why they changed it. The modification I made, makes WA unique again, and requires a large bit of strategy to manipulate for more than a turn or two, while still giving multiple blitz turns. Also, the chances that the player with WA triggers the major rage is only 1 in 36, since it takes two failed rolls on successive turns, and the player likely won't rage for more than 3 since it's only 8 turns a half / overtime.
Hell, in both old-school and new-school rules I could even imagine situations where people would WANT the WA to fail the roll, and burn a re-roll to that end.
If I ever get to play, I would actually plan on having 2 BGs that come equipped with WA under these rules. (Don't know if I would field them both at the same time until I train WA off one of them) I :wub:s me some Rat Ogres and Minotaurs