Ghastly, Ghostly Ethereal Undead

boondog · Post by **boondog** » Mon Sep 08, 2008 6:28 pm

An idea for an additional position on Necromantic teams. Since all kinds of nasties seem to flock to the Necromancer or be attracted to /summoned by the eldritch energy of his magical experiments, he should be able to include a Ghost (or Spectre, Wraith, Apparition, you name it) in his team.

Stats:

5 1 1 5 Loner, Ethereal

Ethereal
The player is "not entirely of this world"; he is transparent and substantial as a cloud of mist. This has the following effects on the pitch:
No Hands, cannot Go for it, Foul, Block or Blitz
Cannot be Blocked, Blitzed or Fouled
Ignores enemy Tackle Zones when moving
Can move over occupied squares, may not end his move in an occupied square or the square the ball is in.

In short, the ethereal player is a highly mobile Tackle Zone that wont quit. (He can be hurt by magic, though; and Zara's Stakes should also confer the ability to Block him as normal.)
He can only gain SPP by earning MVP awards. The following skills are available:

Shadowing, Pass Block, Kick Off Return, Disturbing Presence, Hypnotic Gaze, Diving Tackle, Guard (the last two require a doubles roll).

I'm unsure as to what he should cost. 90 or 100 seems about right.

SillySod · Post by **SillySod** » Mon Sep 08, 2008 8:03 pm

Maybe as a star player? I'd avoid letting something, like this ever having the chance to get diving tackle. To be honest I'm pretty skeptical about letting them ignore tacklezones too - how are khemri going to cope with something that moves through their team at will which they cant block away from the ball carrier?

landrover · Post by **landrover** » Mon Sep 08, 2008 10:45 pm

Love the concept of the player, but agree with sillsod's take on teams like Khemri EVER picking the ball up.

Making them a star player would be the best way to go, even giving them secret weapon status as well to make sure they can't be a game-breaker for 16 turns?

boondog · Post by **boondog** » Tue Sep 09, 2008 8:37 am

I was thinking of a negatrait..
with Wild Animal, he wouldn't be a game breaker, as you'd have to forfeit your Blitz to consistently move your ghost.

SillySod · Post by **SillySod** » Tue Sep 09, 2008 10:52 am

boondog wrote:I was thinking of a negatrait..
with Wild Animal, he wouldn't be a game breaker, as you'd have to forfeit your Blitz to consistently move your ghost.

That depends.... you might not need to move him some of the time because your opponent couldnt risk the dodge. Even with wild anaimal or secret weapon its going to have far too much impact on the game as it currently is. How about dropping its "unblockable" status, upping its armour to 7 or 8, and chucking in the old iron man handicap? Iron man just meant that they couldnt suffer an injury worse than a stun. So....

Star Player - The Wailing Spirit of Crom Kruegar
plays for: Undead, Necromantic (maybe vampire or khemri)

5 1 1 8 Dodge, Ethreal, Loner, Jump Up

Ethreal: this player ignores tacklezones when moving which means they never have to dodge (though they may be shadowed). Since they can never truly be injured treat any injury as a stun.

I'd be tempted to throw on either disturbing presense or passblock to add a little more utility vs elves but its probably not needed. I have no real idea about price, I'd guess it should be somewhere between 100k and 150k.

PubBowler · Post by **PubBowler** » Tue Sep 09, 2008 11:19 am

Really stupid would be a better nega-trait than Wild Animal.

Chance of losing tackle zone really weaken player especially when far from rest of team.

Tritex · Post by **Tritex** » Wed Sep 10, 2008 1:40 am

Funny - has some merit but TBH I think it could be really silly and annoying.

Joemanji · Post by **Joemanji** » Wed Sep 10, 2008 11:55 am

SillySod wrote:Star Player - The Wailing Spirit of Crom Kruegar
plays for: Undead, Necromantic (maybe vampire or khemri)

5 1 1 8 Dodge, Ethreal, Loner, Jump Up

Ethreal: this player ignores tacklezones when moving which means they never have to dodge (though they may be shadowed). Since they can never truly be injured treat any injury as a stun.

I'd be tempted to go something along the lines of:

5 3 1 5 Ethereal, No Hands, Disturbing Presence

Ethereal: The player ignores TZs when moving and never has to make a dodge roll (though they may be Shadowed). They can only make Move actions. If he is blocked ignore any knockdown component of the result, instead leaving the player standing or pushing him back as normal.

I think this makes for a skill that wouldn't have to be relegated to a star. They must be able to GFI or else they can't ever be injured (hence the AV 5).

TuernRedvenom · Post by **TuernRedvenom** » Wed Sep 10, 2008 2:05 pm

With Joe's rules I wouldn't allow it to get skills though. Imagine this thing getting Stand Firm! (and then also getting Guard or Diving Tackle)

SillySod · Post by **SillySod** » Wed Sep 10, 2008 7:47 pm

TuernRedvenom wrote:With Joe's rules I wouldn't allow it to get skills though. Imagine this thing getting Stand Firm! (and then also getting Guard or Diving Tackle)

Thats why I made him a star. I also kind of feel that I dont want it to be a regular feature of games - Undead and Necromantic both feel like they already have their own distinct playstyle without something as crazy as this becoming a regular part of the team.

If you want it to be a regular player then I'd make it a bit pricey and make sure that it cant gain SPPs (or is piss easy to shift). You also want a no stab clause in there, maybe just say that it ignores any kind of injury and give it jump up (so SF isnt a complete killer).

Jural · Post by **Jural** » Wed Sep 10, 2008 8:59 pm

If this piece were to be a part of the game, I'd vastly prefer the following:

Ghost 5 2 4 6 No Hands, Loner, Dodge, Regeneration, Ethereal G/SAP

Ethereal- Whenever the player has his armor broken, roll a d6. On a 4+, no injury occurs. In addition, this player ignores tackle zones when he dodges.

So a player who can get almost anywhere on the pitch and is extremely resistant to injury, but is unable to handle the ball.

I'm not sure I'd want this as canon, but it is a fun house-rule.

boondog · Post by **boondog** » Thu Sep 11, 2008 12:59 pm

Hm. I like Joemanji's take... Ethereal should mean "not-knock-down-able", not merely "injury resistant."
I'd reduce ST to 2 though and have the ghost keep the ability to move over occupied squares.
Being entirely unblockable would give some teams fits... but even so, if you keep the ball moving fast enough, it's not a problem. Even Sprinting Skeletons can keep ahead of him.

Oh, and he was never meant for Undead teams. They're good enough as is. Necromantic only. And since they have a lot of pricey positionals already, a coach'd probably think twice about omitting a wolf for the ghost.

I think I underestimated how uber-powerful the "original-concept" non-removable TZ becomes with Diving Tackle. With Guard, well.. kinda, sorta like a moving ST increase. One of those would add +5 to the TR, so the "original concept" would be cheap at twice the price.
Entirely unblockable is too much, aparently. Pushable but undownable might be alright.

Post by **DoubleSkulls** » Thu Sep 11, 2008 1:45 pm

Joemanji wrote:Ethereal: ... If he is blocked ignore any knockdown component of the result, instead leaving the player standing or pushing him back as normal.

... They must be able to GFI or else they can't ever be injured (hence the AV 5).

What about weapons? Reading this stabs & 'saws would work - as would wizards, bombs etc.