Galak's LRB7 test rules coming to FUMMBL

[plasmoid]

Hi Garion,
yup - blowing the 2+ with a reroll when the ball is involved can be brutal.
But I think even the most conservative coaches get forced into Ball-GFIs and 2+ dodges. It happens. And usually it works out.
I know it's a risk.
And I am a conservative coach.
But I do think passing has a bad rap.

Ah, whatever

BTW, Darkson, my old league had a house rule:
We counted range bars (not range rulers) thrown, rather than just completions.
For every 2 bars, you get 1 SPP. (No half SPPs!)
Messes with SPP-passing in the backfield.
And rewards the developed throwers, who throw long passes and long bombs.
We loved it.

Cheers
Martin

[Smurf]

I'm not sure the spp from a block is 2.77% when you have to hit them over, break armour and then injure. It may be true.

However there is a greater tactical advantage of a pass which offsets that 3 percentage points of failure.

Seriously the quibble is about 3% extra failure?

[dode74]

I'm not sure the spp from a block is 2.77% when you have to hit them over, break armour and then injure. It may be true.

However there is a greater tactical advantage of a pass which offsets that 3 percentage points of failure.

Seriously the quibble is about 3% extra failure?

Not quite what I said. The chance of turnover from a block (2d with block) is 2.77% (without a TRR), while the chance of turnover from the pass is 5.5% (2+, 2+, with either both pass and catch or one of those and a TRR). Twice the risk for half the reward - no wonder people don't like doing it.

[Smurf]

Not quite what I said. The chance of turnover from a block (2d with block) is 2.77% (without a TRR), while the chance of turnover from the pass is 5.5% (2+, 2+, with either both pass and catch or one of those and a TRR). Twice the risk for half the reward - no wonder people don't like doing it.

I don't believe people have consciously sat down and number crunched and came up with:

2.77% block failure without TRR is Good
but
5.5% pass failure with reroll of some kind is Bad.

I know it's the difference between a 3 or 4 on 3d6 vs getting a 1 on a D20.

The Pass allows you to move the Ball 26 squares with hands offs make it easier. A running hand off cannot move the ball that far unless their are 2 M10 sprint guys on the team.

[dode74]

I have

On a more serious note, people often work out the risks intuitively. The 5.5% failure rate for a pass I gave there is a best case scenario, whereas the 2.77% for a block is the average (2d block with block) scenario. An AG3 player without skills making a quick pass to another AG3 player (3+, 3+: a far more "average" situation for passing) would have turnover odds of ~25% with a TRR and 55% without it. It's not hard to intuitively say that either die rolling a 2 or less is far more likely than one of two dice rolling a skull (or a one).

The Pass allows you to move the Ball 26 squares with hands offs make it easier. A running hand off cannot move the ball that far unless their are 2 M10 sprint guys on the team.

The handoff alone has greater turnover odds than the block if the TRR is available for either, and you get no SPP for the handoff (nor should you, imo). Sure, the pass can move the ball plenty, but at much greater risk of turnover. Even an AG5, Accurate, Pass, Strong arm thrower passing to an AG4 catcher with catch has a 14% chance of a turnover on a long bomb.

So yes, I think people have looked at the odds of a turnover and said "thanks, but I'll not risk the pass."

[koadah]

Not quite what I said. The chance of turnover from a block (2d with block) is 2.77% (without a TRR), while the chance of turnover from the pass is 5.5% (2+, 2+, with either both pass and catch or one of those and a TRR). Twice the risk for half the reward - no wonder people don't like doing it.

I don't believe people have consciously sat down and number crunched and came up with:

2.77% block failure without TRR is Good
but
5.5% pass failure with reroll of some kind is Bad.

I know it's the difference between a 3 or 4 on 3d6 vs getting a 1 on a D20.

The Pass allows you to move the Ball 26 squares with hands offs make it easier. A running hand off cannot move the ball that far unless their are 2 M10 sprint guys on the team.

I don't pass because usually I can score without passing.
If I cannot score without passing then I will go for the pass.

I won't pass just for the sake of passing unless I'm trying to skill players and the ball is safe.
I'll carry on blocking for the chance of removing an opposing player who may not return.

If the opponent allows me to drive for 8 turns before scoring then I'll drive for 8 turns.
I won't rush down the field and score in two turns unless it's the end of the half.

Under CRP I don't even have to make hand offs to spread skills around. My ball carrier can receive the kick off and run it all the way back herself. Even if she is an elf.

@Dode My point is that if a game is tight why risk putting the ball on the ground unnecessarily? an extra SPP isn't going to do much change playing style especially if you make up those SPPs with a little bit of farming.

[dode74]

@Dode My point is that if a game is tight why risk putting the ball on the ground unnecessarily? an extra SPP isn't going to do much change playing style especially if you make up those SPPs with a little bit of farming.

And if the game is tight I won't make any unnecessary blocks, just necessary ones. But if the game is won, or effectively over and I'm on T16, and I can gain SPP from blocks and passing then I will no matter how many SPP are gained from either. It may not change playstyles, but it may incentivise a less bashy playstyle in MM-type leagues.

[Hitonagashi]

BTW, Darkson, my old league had a house rule:
We counted range bars (not range rulers) thrown, rather than just completions.
For every 2 bars, you get 1 SPP. (No half SPPs!)
Messes with SPP-passing in the backfield.
And rewards the developed throwers, who throw long passes and long bombs.
We loved it.

Laeranu would have somewhere near 400 spp with that houserule

As a point, from 85 games in the Box, passing like crazy, I love safe throw. It's saved my bacon lots of times when I'm passing away on defense, and gives you a valid reason to save a RR for making the pass.

I think one thing a lot of people don't take into account on a passing play is that it makes scoring with 4 elves against an 11 man strong killer chaos/nurgle team still fairly easy. Running plays can find that tricky. Not that I have that often in the Box or anything

[koadah]

It may not change playstyles, but it may incentivise a less bashy playstyle in MM-type leagues.

Eh?

[dode74]

Typo, my bad

It may not change playstyles, but it may incentivise a less team choice playstyle in MM-type leagues.