Suggested House ruling on Apothecary

Mestari · Post by **Mestari** » Thu Dec 12, 2002 7:40 am

I'd start the developing apothecaries rather at 3+ - just to keep the impact to high-cost, high-turnover teams in check. Or decrease their price to reflect théir healing ability:
You can only buy 40k apothecaries, but the cost changes according to their prowess:
20k 6+
30k 5+
40k 4+
50k 3+
60k 2+

It's not a bad house rule.

Shasta McNasty · Post by **Shasta McNasty** » Thu Dec 12, 2002 4:43 pm

Making an apothecary automatic would have to at least make him cost more, in my opinion.
Having advancing apothecaries, and a multitude of them, makes it too hard to actually kill a player once he is actually becing a problem (ie has a few advances under his belt), because by that time, teh apothecaries would probably have advanced as well and teh same player could be saved multiple times.
Alowing an apothecary to use a team re-roll is an interesting idea, but you do of course face teh problem of not (for anything else as far as I am aware) being able to use a re-roll in your opponents turn.
As an Undead player myself, I do love seeing a little elf or skaven lying bleeding and broken on teh pitch. Now fair enuff many of you may see this post as being purely self-serving, but the fact is that with coaches of roughly equal skill, an agility team will always advance more quickly then a team that relies mostly on beating people to a bloody pulp. So what is teh equaliser here? What allows a slow scoring, casualty reliant team like my own teh ability to compete with much more advanced teams?
I'll tell u what: CASUALTIES. Those brave little players that die on teh pitch before me. If every now and then an advanced catcher perishes, well, tough. There's usually more where he came from.

In teh end ppl, teh game is called BLOOD bowl. Death is part of teh game. So suck it up and keep on playing.

Evil Git · Post by **Evil Git** » Thu Dec 12, 2002 4:53 pm

mestari

from what you were saying then that for a 6+ roll the apothacary would cost 60,000 gps upwards to the 2+ costing 100,000 gps.

i like the idea of this but in my opinion the costs should be higher (only slightly though) maybe topping out at 160,000 (every skill increase costs the original amount plus 20,000 extra)

Munkey · Post by **Munkey** » Thu Dec 12, 2002 7:38 pm

Why not then allow teams to buy apothecaries of different levels, meaning more strategy. Should I buy two cheap apothecaries or one expensive one?

As long as the costs are set at the right levels and only one roll is allowed per injury this should'nt become unbalanced.

I'd like to see a limit to the number that can be bought though, perhaps a maximum of three.

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Thu Dec 12, 2002 8:01 pm

In case you've never seen them ... here are the apothecary rules used the MBBL2, WBBL, WBBJ-L, CSBBL, and PBeMBBL leagues:

http://www.midgardbb.com/Apothecary.html

Galak

The PBeM tool is even programmed to handle these rules.

kaboom · Post by **kaboom** » Thu Dec 12, 2002 8:18 pm

BB is a game for fun.
u take a realy bad decision

Snew · Post by **Snew** » Fri Dec 13, 2002 1:06 am

It's fun when players die. Let's ditch the whole apothecary thing or, at least, make them similar to pain boyz and have the option of driving the player insane.

Sure, we saved his life, I'm just wondering if he wouldn't have been better off dead.

Shasta McNasty · Post by **Shasta McNasty** » Fri Dec 13, 2002 1:42 am

Jeez galac... so teh only way for a poor undead player to kill a good player in your league is if u cant afford to make teh THREE rolls that would save him?

OH MY GOD

Munkey · Post by **Munkey** » Fri Dec 13, 2002 5:01 pm

Perhaps apothecarys should be a bit more mercenary and you should have to pay them a small fee each time they save a player. It's still cheaper than buying a replacement.

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Fri Dec 13, 2002 5:46 pm

Shasta McNasty wrote:Jeez galac... so teh only way for a poor undead player to kill a good player in your league is if u cant afford to make teh THREE rolls that would save him?

OH MY GOD

Sorry Shasta ... I just have to laugh at this.

Very very very few teams in any of the 5 leagues that use these rules have Apothecaries above Level 3. Out of the 55 teams in the MBBL2, I think we currently have maybe 4 total personal apothecaries. I mean lets be honest if you bought a Wardancer and wanted as a rookie wanted to make sure he could have 3 rolls to save his life, you would need 120k for the personal apothecary and 250k for the Level 5 apothecary ... so thta 370 .... OR 37 points of TR tied up in Apothecaries. That's a LOT of team advantage to give away for this assurance. ESPECIALLY for the following reason:

Handicap result #53 on all 5 of these league's handicap table:
53 MICKEY FINN: You have spiked the punch of your opponent's Apothecary, and he is unavailable this match.

Want to lose 25 points of TR advantage in a hurry ... go right ahead and sink 250k into that apoth.

At this point out of 55 teams in the MBBL2, only 2 have level 5 apothecaries. I don't think anyone in the other 4 have one. Its just not worth the investment. Soooooo since almost no one buys a level 5 apoth and these 5 leagues have virtually no personal apothecaries, it means that folks die at the same rate as in your league.

So its not nearly the love fest that you think it is. ESPECIALLY considering that all 5 of these leagues have some pretty strong strength type teams that can really pound the living tar out of their opponents along with some very nasty new skills (Pitch Player and Juggernaut both can do some heavy damage to opponents).

I have 4 folks that have run away stamped all over them right now in the MBBL2 (there are more where these guys came from), so the apoths do get pretty heavy use in these 5 leagues ... got know all the facts before judging:

Gothmog
Bloodthirster
6 8 3 10
BIG GUY, Block, Break Tackle, Dirty Player, Mighty Blow, Daemonic Aura, Unstable

Sir Cumam Bient
Minotaur
3 7 1 9
BIG GUY, Block, Horns, Frenzy, Mighty Blow, Thick Skull, Throw TeamMate, Wild Animal, Always Hungry, No GFI, Multiple Block, Pitch Player

Mr. Yum
Champion of Chaos
5 6 3 10
BIG GUY, Block, Mighty Blow, Multiple Block, Regeneration, Piling On, Tackle, Juggernaut, Stomach Pains, Not a Team Player, Personal Apothecary

King Kong
Mummy
3 5 1 9
Mighty Blow, Regenerate, Trip Up, Piling On, Block, Juggernaut

Galak

Snew · Post by **Snew** » Fri Dec 13, 2002 6:20 pm

Here's an idea.

Let the apothecaries do what they do but instead of "fixing" the whole problem, just let them recduce the effects of it by one.

Dead=SI
SI=Badly Hurt
Badly Hurt=KO
KO=Stunned

Niggler=Plays this match

You could have as many of them and let them be as good as anyone wants them to be if this were the case. I might even be open to letting them "fix" past injuries in the same manner at the beginning of the next game.

Shasta McNasty · Post by **Shasta McNasty** » Sat Dec 14, 2002 3:26 am

Sorry I din't have all the facts before Galak... of course, if u dont post them, I have no way of knowing....

I simply read the rules you did post, and concluded, based on experience playing the game, that being as once you advance a team to a certain level, barring many many deaths, you always have plenty of cash, that there was the potential for extreme abuse of this system. Sorry for not making my point clear earlier.

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Sat Dec 14, 2002 12:56 pm

Shasta McNasty wrote:Sorry I din't have all the facts before Galak... of course, if u dont post them, I have no way of knowing....

Sorry, my bad ... at this point a lot of the folks on TBB have seen the rules of the MBBL2 and its 4 sister leagues and have played in one or more of them at least once.

I simply read the rules you did post, and concluded, based on experience playing the game, that being as once you advance a team to a certain level, barring many many deaths, you always have plenty of cash, that there was the potential for extreme abuse of this system.

Now see this is what I still don't see. Between the LRB aging and the new cash tables, I'm not seeing the plenty of cash scenario. Zombie said he is seeing it in his league, but I'm not seeing it in either of mine at this point, and most folks I've talked to haven't either. In 3rd I agree there was lots of cash, but I'm not seeing that now. Under the LRB rules, 25 points of TR locked up in an Apoth is a decent chuck of your team. Most coaches I know don't see the benefit compared to the cost. And almost no one sees the benefit of a personal apothecary (especially since they cannot stop aging rolls). I would think this system could work even in a normal league, but I have no way to prove that. The extra ST factor in the MBBL2 where these rules exist skew the results.

Galak

D'Arquebus · Post by **D'Arquebus** » Sat Jan 18, 2003 1:29 pm

Galak

Shasta said

I simply read the rules you did post, and concluded, based on experience playing the game, that being as once you advance a team to a certain level, barring many many deaths, you always have plenty of cash, that there was the potential for extreme abuse of this system. Sorry for not making my point clear earlier.

You said you dont see this in your leagues but I certainly do. I play/comish the league Shasta plays in and around the 20 game mark the top teams certainly see a surplus of cash. So that prompts the question how long do your teams usually play for before retiring.

Additionally you said

The extra ST factor in the MBBL2 where these rules exist skew the results

I think this is probably true. I don't know what "juggernaut" or "pitchplayer" do but they don't exist in our league. Stopping some of the runaway stars of the agile teams is only possible through death. So it may be true you NEED these apoth rules more. For us it would mostly keep the 'wrong types' alive too long, ie the super stars

.

For example the two gutter runners off my skaven team were:

11/2/5/7 Dodge, Block, V.L.Legs, +1 MA, +1AG, Pass Block
10/3/4/8 Dodge, Block, Sprint, V.L.Legs, +1St, Strip Ball

Do you think I would even hestitate to buy a personal apoth for a measley 90K each. These guys are certainly worth their weight in gold. Granted I was pretty lucky with the advance rolls, but still I have seen plenty of this sort of thing in my time, and on players who were considerably cheaper then your example of a War Dancer. Fine they don't fix ageing but with the suped up apoth being able to bring on nigglers (the most common ageing result by far) and heal aswell it shouldn't hurt too much.

Back to money, the apoths will sort out the lack of money problem by themselves, by keeping position players alive and uncrippled. Up to several in each game in fact. So it will pay for itself by stopping a very large drain on your resources. My very last game had a skilled beastman die and be healed only to have a 100K Chaos warrior (also skilled) die 2 turns later. That is the joy and strategy of the current system. Deciding when and who to save at risk of further harser loss, and on the other side trying to draw out the apoth before nailing the super star.

To sum up, these rules may work in your leagues, but you have been the first to admit that those are fairly heavy on house rules. In the LRB set of rules they would be too much and open to abuse.

plasmoid · Post by **plasmoid** » Sat Jan 18, 2003 1:56 pm

Hi Roysorlie,

in my league, we have a suggestion pending democratic resolution in april. (Thats how we do things here).
The suggestion was raised by the coach who seems to blow his apoth roll every single time.

The idea is simple: When you roll a 1 for the apothecary, his work isn't exactly perfect, so move the treated player to the "badly hurt box".

Martin