CRaP Big Guys

[MattDakka]

I tend to only use big guys as road blocks, guard assists and hope they do some damage at lower TV.

Yep, in TT tournaments/low TV games they are less worse, in a perpetual environment they are too easily removed (by Clawpomb).

[voyagers_uk]

@Mattdakka, by perpetual I assume you are just referring to fumbbl... In a normal tabletop league where a team can play multiple seasons big guys have some value as pivot/ road-block types as Spubbba says

That environment tends to allow for bounties and such on the players with clawpomb. To be honest if it is a semi-friendly league the coaches of those players may be encouraged to retire or rest them after several seasons. I accept in online leagues that this is not as readily done nor expressly desired

[MattDakka]

@Mattdakka, by perpetual I assume you are just referring to fumbbl... In a normal tabletop league where a team can play multiple seasons big guys have some value as pivot/ road-block types as Spubbba says

Yes, FUMBBL/Cyanide online perpetual leagues.

[Darkson]

Having BGs cost the same on all rosters they're present, regardless of the "value" they have on that roster was a mistake, another one JJ has left us with.
For example, an Ogre on an Ogre team should cost less than one on a human team, which should cost less than one on a Pact team but JJ didn't think BB players were intelligent enough to have different roster costs on different rosters.

[Steam Ball]

But it seems he was happy with the other way, same price and different characteristics. (Non BG, but bear with me) Chaos Dwarf vs Normal Dwarf Blockers are same price... and the CDs get access to Mutations. (Now BG) Minotaur in CD has M as double but in plain Chaos as single. Trees are same price for Halfling or Wood Elf... but only in one you get Loner.

So other BGs could had received the same treatament, based in the team, tweak them a bit or give or take skills, as it seems he was so stuck with the coins.

[babass]

Having BGs cost the same on all rosters they're present, regardless of the "value" they have on that roster was a mistake, another one JJ has left us with.
For example, an Ogre on an Ogre team should cost less than one on a human team, which should cost less than one on a Pact team but JJ didn't think BB players were intelligent enough to have different roster costs on different rosters.

Ogres in ogre teams do not have loner. Same for Treemen in Halfling compare to the one of Woodelves.
Minotaur could have different skill access depending of the roster they are from (Mutation on simple or not)
There is some differences already. But not on the cost.

[fidius]

Cost is a minor issue for perpetual structured leagues, moreso for TV-matched and tournaments. I think Loner is a great way to simulate their unreliability, along with RS/BH/WA. As has been said, the main issue might be CPOMB.

But I've always had trouble with Big Guys not being more dangerous than a skilled-up S-access player. The answer perhaps is to restructure the killstack entirely. Make MB an E skill for BGs only, then add a S skill (+1 Injury) and a G skill (+1 Armour roll), cumulative with MB. Give PO a revamp to make it more effective for high-strength players, ie decreased risk of turnover and/or personal injury the higher the player's relative strength. Claw stays as-is, but a new skill comes in that does Claw's job, except with potential for ejection, and availability (on doubles) to almost everyone.

This would make BGs pretty feared... But may serve as the impetus we need to get rid of the Pact roster entirely...

[Jimmy Fantastic]

Big guys weren't unreliable originally and it's the unreliability that makes them crap more than anything.
I think I have changed my mind to just removing loner from the game entirely and removing nega traits from big guys.
Maybe a bit of points tweaking to balance it.

[MattDakka]

Big guys weren't unreliable originally and it's the unreliability that makes them crap more than anything.
I think I have changed my mind to just removing loner from the game entirely and removing nega traits from big guys.
Maybe a bit of points tweaking to balance it.

Yes, Loner is awful.

[voyagers_uk]

it is, on purpose...

shame you weren't around to see the reasoning behind it take shape, as you might have been able to tweak it with the BBRC and vault.

Big guys without it would be exactly what you want them to be, do you see the problem with that? They have to be limited so that they do not destroy the balance of the teams. otherwise everyone would play Orges and destroy any team that gains any ground on them.

By all means petition the fumbbl creators for a division where you can test this out, like the apes roster. go that far and see which league team comes out on top after 100+ games then come back to us.

we do listen when evidence is provided, but just your assertions are not good enough.

[Jimmy Fantastic]

Well everyone listened to Flix.....

[voyagers_uk]

who?

[MattDakka]

who?

This guy:
http://fumbbl.com/~Flix

[Jimmy Fantastic]

You know, the guy who said that cpomb having a 55% chance to remove a player was maybe a tiny bit too good but then got shot down by people who tried to argue that fend and wrestle are god tier skills.

[voyagers_uk]

never heard of him, sorry