Need ideas for nerfing dwarfs - round 3: Poll

Andromidius · Post by **Andromidius** » Fri May 08, 2009 6:46 pm

Tell people not to play Elves or Amazons *cough*.

~Andromidius

SillySod · Post by **SillySod** » Fri May 08, 2009 7:16 pm

Not a huge amount you can do...
- remove blitzers entirely
- increase prices of stuff
- take tackle off of longbeards, possibly in exchange for +AG

plasmoid · Post by **plasmoid** » Mon May 11, 2009 9:53 am

Right. Time to sift through the grabage to find the gold

It kind of feels like the ancient dwarf lobby has snuck into this one - an unusual ammount of suggestions can hardly be called nerfs at all.

Scanning the looooong list, there's a few things I like personally.
Though it borders on an overhaul, I like inventing a lineman and reducing the number of blockers.
But for me, the blocker has to be 0-2. 0-4 is 10 positionals (too much IMO) and will hardly affect the team at all apart from making the bench cheaper! Buff!!
So, 0-2 blockers, and I don't like the idea of very cheap linemen. Or AG3 linemen. I mean, I like AG3 linemen in theory - would let dwarf teams pull more neat stuff. But they'd still be bashy at their core, and I wouldn't want to alleviate one of their major problems - few ball handlers.

So, merging this idea with sticking some wrestle on them, I get:
Blockers reduced to 0-2
0-16 linemen added 5329 wrestle, thick skull 70K

Personally, I wouldn't mind if that got combined with replacing block with juggernaut on the slayers. It would make the team even less block-heavy. And it would make slayers more "suicidal", which is what they're supposed to be.

Cheers
Martin

Suggestions so far:
Longbeards & blitzers lose block, gain wrestle
Longbeards lose block, gain wrestle
Longbeards lose block, price reduced to 60K
Longbeards lose tackle, no price reduction
Longbeards reduced to 0-4 - new 0-16 lineman 4329 block, thick skull 60K
Longbeards reduced to 0-4 - new 0-16 lineman 5329 thick skull (50K)
Longbeards reduced to 0-4 - new 0-16 lineman 4329 wrestle, thick skull (60K)
Longbeards reduced to 0-2 - new 0-16 lineman 5339 thick skull (60K)
Longbeards reduced to 0-2 - new 0-16 lineman 5329 thick skull, wrestle 70K
Longbeards lose S access.
Longbeards cost 80K

Blitzer cost increased to 90K
Remove blitzers

Troll slayers to AV7, no price reduction
Troll slayers 100K
Troll slayers lose block, gain juggernaut
Troll slayers lose block

Runner to MA5
Runner to MA5, but gain sure feet
Runner lose sure hands

Rerolls 60K

Up the cost on everything

Things that aren't clear nerfs
Move tackle from longbeards to blitzers, making team cheaper.
Move tackle from longbeards to blitzers, make blitzers 0-4
Slayers lose block and G-access, but gain juggernaut and mighty blow.
Slayers lose block but gain mighty blow.
Runners lose 1AV, gain 1MA

Other stuff that fall outside of the guidelines
New skill on all dwarfs, fail GFI on 1-2
Longbeards lose block (50K), Runners 70K, Troll slayers 100K & 60K rerolls (too intricate/overhaul)

Post by **voyagers_uk** » Mon May 11, 2009 10:52 am

I am not sure how more fragile ball carriers is considered to not be a nerf

7 3 3 7 on the runners is a clear nerf.

plasmoid · Post by **plasmoid** » Mon May 11, 2009 10:57 am

Hi Voyagers,
IMO, 6337 would be a clear nerf. Take something away without compensation.

I've played a dwarf team for 50 games, and I can remember a lot of times when MA7 would have made a difference. IMO a lot more so than the AV7 - cause he lived his life protected by a lot of guards.

So to me, it's: might be a nerf, might not be a nerf.

Post by **voyagers_uk** » Mon May 11, 2009 11:03 am

question:

assuming that you use these nerfs in a league, would you ever use the results and data from that league to attempt to influence future LRB discussions?

plasmoid · Post by **plasmoid** » Mon May 11, 2009 11:10 am

I certainly have no plans of that ATM.
As stated, I'm looking to create a catalogue of good, fluffy, reasonable and balanced tweaks.
Most likely, I won't be adopting any of them myself.

So - no secret agenda here

[PS - and the way the polls have been worded, they can't be used to say that "a majority of coaches would like this or that to happen", because posters have not been asked whether they even want a nerf/buff to happen or not. We're firmly on house rules territory]

Ullis · Post by **Ullis** » Mon May 11, 2009 1:49 pm

I like taking Sure Hands from the Runners.

This would mean that the team is not as "perfect" right from the start. It would also make the Runner development more challenging. This is not something they couldn't live without as their Rerolls are cheap and they generally do not need rerolls for blocking (contrast with Chaos).

Post by **voyagers_uk** » Mon May 11, 2009 2:38 pm

why not replace sure hands with dump off.... a bunch of AG2 options await the dump off.....

mattgslater · Post by **mattgslater** » Mon May 11, 2009 3:31 pm

0-2 Runner 6/3/3/8 Dump Off, Nerves of Steel, Thick Skull GP/AS (GPS/A?) 90k

Rhyoth · Post by **Rhyoth** » Mon May 11, 2009 7:56 pm

plasmoid wrote:Scanning the looooong list, there's a few things I like personally.
Though it borders on an overhaul, I like inventing a lineman and reducing the number of blockers.
But for me, the blocker has to be 0-2. 0-4 is 10 positionals (too much IMO) and will hardly affect the team at all apart from making the bench cheaper!
Buff!!
So, 0-2 blockers, and I don't like the idea of very cheap linemen. Or AG3 linemen. I mean, I like AG3 linemen in theory - would let dwarf teams pull more neat stuff. But they'd still be bashy at their core, and I wouldn't want to alleviate one of their major problems - few ball handlers.

So, merging this idea with sticking some wrestle on them, I get:
Blockers reduced to 0-2
0-16 linemen added 5329 wrestle, thick skull 70K

I can't fully agree with you on this one :

1) 0-2 Blockers would be too severe for a nerf

2) Having only 0-4 Blockers IS a nerf (as long as you keep that equation true : Linemen' price + TRR' price = 120 k ) :

_even if you only drop one Tackler off the starting team, this change will also affect Dwarves on each KO, CAS or MNG injuries, and will give them weaker Journeymen as well

_more importantly, that will have an important impact in their opponents strategy : for example, fouling/crowd surfing a Blocker would be waaaaaayy more appealing than it is now, especially for any "Dodge-Heavy" teams ...

3) It's interesting to note that, with cheaper Linemen and more expensive TRR, Dwarves won't be able to start with all their positionnals AND 3 RRs ...

Regarding the linemen profile, I'd prefer a 4329 TS + Block or Wrestle for 60 k (+60k RR of course), in order to avoïd an "hidden" Buff.

Add a non-Block, Juggernaut Troll Slayer and the job is done.

JaM · Post by **JaM** » Mon May 11, 2009 8:30 pm

Upping the price of the RRs to 60k, and maybe up the cost of some of the players might be nice.

It just infuences their starting roster, but that's already so good, they can handle that I think.

mattgslater · Post by **mattgslater** » Mon May 11, 2009 8:59 pm

60k TRR, plus 60k Blockers with no Tackle?

Rhyoth · Post by **Rhyoth** » Mon May 11, 2009 9:20 pm

Without Tackle, Dwarves would be pretty weak, furthermore, that would require a change in the Chaos Dwarf Roster as well...

mattgslater · Post by **mattgslater** » Mon May 11, 2009 9:44 pm

Not necessarily on either count. Give them 0-4 Blitzers to boot, and don't alter CDs.

Talk Fantasy Football

Need ideas for nerfing dwarfs - round 3: Poll

Which nerf fits dwarfs the best?