Humans - Theoretical LRB7 Discussion

Gropah · Post by **Gropah** » Tue Mar 10, 2009 6:14 pm

ST3 on catchers would probably very fast make them fulfill other roles than "catching"... I would really really like AV8 on them though, because ST2 and AV7 is an unneeded double-whammy of hurt.

WildAnimal · Post by **WildAnimal** » Tue Mar 10, 2009 11:32 pm

Think you should be careful not to make Human Catchers better then Wood Elf Catchers. In LRB6.0 WE catchers only having Move 8.

mattgslater · Post by **mattgslater** » Tue Mar 10, 2009 11:45 pm

How about giving them each type of positional? 0-2 each Thrower, Runner, Catcher, Blitzer and Blocker, plus 0-1 Ogre?

Blockers and Runners should both be 80k or should be 70k and 90k.

How about this?

Runner: Ghoul
Blocker: 5/3/3/9 Block, Wrestle, GS 90k

Or this?
Runner: Ghoul with NOS, 80k
Blocker: 5/3/3/9 Block, GS 80k or 5/3/2/9 Block, Wrestle, GS 80k

I like the dilemma value of Block/Wrestle, and I think that a Dwarf Blitzer is worth +10k if you upgrade Thick Skull (near-worthless) to a limited skill, like Wrestle on a Block player. What's a similarly semiuseful skill?

Gropah · Post by **Gropah** » Wed Mar 11, 2009 12:54 am

WildAnimal wrote:Think you should be careful not to make Human Catchers better then Wood Elf Catchers. In LRB6.0 WE catchers only having Move 8.

And Sprint, and a teeny weeny additional point of AG

Rhyoth · Post by **Rhyoth** » Wed Mar 11, 2009 4:59 am

mattgslater wrote:How about giving them each type of positional? 0-2 each Thrower, Runner, Catcher, Blitzer and Blocker, plus 0-1 Ogre?

Blockers and Runners should both be 80k or should be 70k and 90k.

How about this?

Runner: Ghoul
Blocker: 5/3/3/9 Block, Wrestle, GS 90k

Or this?
Runner: Ghoul with NOS, 80k
Blocker: 5/3/3/9 Block, GS 80k or 5/3/2/9 Block, Wrestle, GS 80k

I like the dilemma value of Block/Wrestle, and I think that a Dwarf Blitzer is worth +10k if you upgrade Thick Skull (near-worthless) to a limited skill, like Wrestle on a Block player. What's a similarly semiuseful skill?

I agree that Humans should have access to all the basic positionnals described p. 4 of the LRB. (see my previous post p.2)

Regarding Blockers, Block + Wrestle is quite interresting, but it's also an underpowered "combo", so you should decrease Blockers' price by 10k.
Since I don't see Blockers playing the ball nor dodging, they should have AG 2.
(this way, although Humans will gain some strength, they'll loose some mobility : it's a fair trade)

Regarding Runners, NOS doesn't seem right.
Sure Hands or Sure Feet fits better (I personnally like Fend or Side Step too, but it's maybe not the good choice either)

Note : I'm totally against the idea of AV 8 Catchers, but AV 8 Runners make some sense.

prisma · Post by **prisma** » Wed Mar 11, 2009 8:01 am

hmmm, guys, I think this topic's discussion already came to a nice and sensible consensus about 80k blitzers and AV 8 catchers (read the previous pages why). I can't see no need to roll the whole thing up again, and honestly, adding skills etc is a thing that will definitely not be done by "the rulemakers"... (for good reasons, would be too much movement that would wake calls for movement into the opposite direction.) AV 8 catchers and 80k blitzers are proposals that have been discussed for years - and I think the time has come (for the reasons Al posted) to make them real.

plasmoid · Post by **plasmoid** » Wed Mar 11, 2009 11:31 am

I think the genius in the design of the orc and human team was, that each was missing one of the 5 cardinal positions.
Orcs had no catchers.
Humans had no blockers.
It very clearly defined them.

I hated that orcs got catchers/gobbos.
I'd hate it even more if humans got blockers.

Cheers
Martin

Ulrikk · Post by **Ulrikk** » Wed Mar 11, 2009 1:12 pm

Hmm... I think humans are great the way they are. Their catchers, blitzers and throwers can all become very powerfull after 2-3 skill-ups, so no need to change them.

WildAnimal · Post by **WildAnimal** » Wed Mar 11, 2009 1:15 pm

I do not agree, human team er to underpowered.

And i think there weak side is bashing.

purdindas · Post by **purdindas** » Wed Mar 11, 2009 2:41 pm

I'd like a change in them but Jervis says that the official rules for Blood Bowl are not going to change in the forseeable future. I think the only way to implement the suggestions here is in house rules.These suggestions need play testing to see whether the seem viable or not.

I dont think runners and blockers ahould be in the human team. They would change the dynamics of it to much and severely affect the humans style of play. All that is needed is a few minor tweaks I feel and the team would be more competitive.

The way I see it now is that humans are around the bottom of tier 1. They should be at least in the middle of tier 1. Not alot has to be done in order to readress this balance. 80K blitzers and less vurnerable catchers are the best suggestions so far IMO.

I fear all this chatter may be in vane as far as the LRB is concerned...

Gropah · Post by **Gropah** » Wed Mar 11, 2009 2:59 pm

purdindas wrote: The way I see it now is that humans are around the bottom of tier 1. They should be at least in the middle of tier 1.

Agreed on both points. Humans in the bottom of Tier 1 is just sad.

purdindas wrote:80K blitzers and less vulnerable catchers are the best suggestions so far IMO.

Agreed.

purdindas wrote:I fear all this chatter may be in vane as far as the LRB is concerned...

I don't even fear it's in vain, I'm pretty much convinced it is...

Beholden · Post by **Beholden** » Wed Mar 11, 2009 3:13 pm

Maybe the better alternative is two rosters. Onewith only slight modification and another with blockers and str 3 catchers. The second roster would look something like this:

0-16 Lineman 50k 6338 G/ASP
0-2 Blockers 70k 5339 Grab GS/AP
0-2 Catchers 70k 7337 Catch GA/SP
0-2 Throwers 70k 6338 Sure Hands, Pass GP/AS
0-2 Blitzers 90k 7338 Block GS/AP
0-1 Ogre 140k 5529 Loner, Bone-head, Mighty Blow, Thick Skull, Throw Team-mate S/GAP

- Beholden.

WildAnimal · Post by **WildAnimal** » Wed Mar 11, 2009 3:22 pm

I like Grab+MV9 blockers.... Grab is a great skill to improve the running/catching game. Like this idea.

bouncergriim · Post by **bouncergriim** » Wed Mar 11, 2009 3:48 pm

See I find it interesting that you all think that humans should be better. I think of it like this: Humans are skill but fragile and short-live as far as fantasy races go.

Orc and dwarves are stronger, stouter and live longer. Elves though fragile, have long lives and can develope more over time. Undead are "eternal", but poorly skilled. Sauri live until something kills them.

Humans can win wars and rule nations by strategy and numbers. On a pitch numbers are out and stategy is limited by the game. I would think in the long run humans wouldn't do that well compared to other races with racial advatages. I think a lot of humans winning depends on how adapatable the coach is. They are a versitile team and that is disavantageous to most coaches in my experience... I play lizards and play them well, but have difficulty with other teams that use different strategies. Having to adapt on the fly makes a coach of humans the real key to winning.

With other teams you need to really only master one or two styles/plays for offense and defense and then you are compitent. Humans though versitile with newbies against newbies, seem to break down when you start playing more advanced coaches. Does any one have the current tourney stats on humans versus other teir 1 teams? That and what is the percentage of human teams played at tourneys compared to other one trick pony teams like dwarves and woodelves.

I really think dwarves and woodelves (at the top of the rankings) are great because the rosters are stong, but also because their strategies are easy to learn and apply.

Joemanji · Post by **Joemanji** » Wed Mar 11, 2009 3:54 pm

In the background Humans are one of the most successful races. Their strategy on the battlefield presumably translating to organisation on the pitch and financial clout off it.

In actual play they are one of the least effective (serious) rosters around.