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Advice needed for Mortal Chaos Team Creation

Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2005 3:11 am
by atropabelladonna
I want to make a Mortal Chaos team for my BB league. I already have a beastman and Daemon team (thanks Plasmoid for the Daemon team)

The best thing is to start with the existing LRB Chaos team, look at my goals, and do only minor changes.

Lets look at the goals.
  • 1. Make the chaos team slightly stronger at the start and weaker at the end than the current one. Mainly by removing S access on every player!!
  • 2. Make them humans, not Beastman
  • 3. Still keep 4 chaos warriors, they are the heart of the team (I made the Beastman variant 0-2)
I think the team below achieves these goals, but still requires some minor
tuning.

0-8 Human Cultist G M 50K or Chaos Skum 0-8 6337 G M 40K
0-4 Mutants 6338 + random Mutation and either (M) or (G A S M) 70K
0-4 Chaos Warriors 100K
0-1 Ogre with S M access 140K
70K rerolls

Linemen

So, to make the team weaker, I changed the beastmen to human line men or hobgoblin equivalents. This removes the S access that makes beastmen mean. It also makes the team cheaper, which helps beginning teams afford more rerolls. Good all round things. Which to choose, Chaos Skum or Chaos Linemen???? I am leaning towards the skum as then you get a better range of AV's in the list. It shows how much better the mutants and chaos warriors are. Also provides a small AV 7 weakness to the list. But at 40K, I can then afford more rerolls and positionals. It is a catch. Still, with such expensive rerolls and positionals, maybe they are the way to go. There is still little skill on the team.

Mutants

But the team is now weak at the start and the end. So I want to add a positional. The mutant is a cool choice. He gives the team a somewhat skilled player by having a random mutation, which is fluffy and fun. I have two ideas with him, which is better?

1. Give the mutants access to all skills (G A S M). This represents
their mutation like abilities, they can develop into anything.

2. Let them only have mutation access, thus requiring doubles to get any
non mutations. Non doubles lets them pick a skill. This represents them mutating all the time!!!

I like this team. It isn't fast and have few starting skills, but the chaos
warriors and mutants have potential to be good players. Their cheaper cost means you get a little variety in your starting team. Still not positive
which way to go for linemen and mutants, so feedback would be appreciated.

Summary
  • Which Linemen do I use?
  • What skill access for the Mutant [M] only or [G A S M]
I'm not looking for a whole new chaos team, just opinions on the above chaos mortal team. Is it too weak? Have I failed to achieve my goals, or is it too good?

Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2005 8:43 am
by dendron
1. Make the chaos team slightly stronger at the start and weaker at the end than the current one. Mainly by removing S access on every player!!

???

I think the idea behind the team is clear (to me)! But I don't like it. To change the beastmen against hobgobbos is ok!

But remove strength access from the Choas warrior? Why?
The mutants are too strong. They are stronger then the beastmen....

Why should a Ogre start to mutate?

Overall nice idea, but a bit unballance in my opinion.

Dendron

Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2005 8:48 am
by Joemanji
Have a look at the team listed at the end of this thread. I think it does pretty much what you want. Having a player that starts with a random skill is IMO a problem, as you'll have coaches turn up with "pre-rolled" skills, and they'll all be Claw. :wink: Don't put any AV 7 players in ... that is a serious nerf for a bashy team. :)

Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2005 9:26 am
by David Bergkvist
dendron wrote:But remove strength access from the Choas warrior? Why?
What he meant was probably that he wants to remove the "ST access from everyone" condition that the team chaos team has (i e that there should be some players without ST access), not that he wants to remove strength access from everyone.
dendron wrote:The mutants are too strong. They are stronger then the beastmen....
Why is that "too strong"? The current chaos team has 0-12 beastmen whereas this team only has 0-4 mutants. The problem isn't that they're too strong, but that random mutations at team creation just doesn't work (a cheesy coach can just restart the team until all players have the mutations he wants).
dendron wrote:Why should a Ogre start to mutate?
Because they worship the same chaos gods as the rest of the team. And said chaos gods give mutations to their worshippers.

Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2005 3:19 pm
by atropabelladonna
dendron wrote:1. Make the chaos team slightly stronger at the start and weaker at the end than the current one. Mainly by removing S access on every player!!

???

I think the idea behind the team is clear (to me)! But I don't like it. To change the beastmen against hobgobbos is ok!

But remove strength access from the Choas warrior? Why?
The mutants are too strong. They are stronger then the beastmen....

Why should a Ogre start to mutate?

Overall nice idea, but a bit unballance in my opinion.

Dendron
Ooops, Chaos warriors still get G S M

Ogres should mutate as they are on the chaos team!!

Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2005 4:18 pm
by atropabelladonna
Nazgit wrote: Having a player that starts with a random skill is IMO a problem, as you'll have coaches turn up with "pre-rolled" skills, and they'll all be Claw. :wink: Don't put any AV 7 players in ... that is a serious nerf for a bashy team. :)
I don't think it will be much of a problem, as I am the commish and can make sure people are honest about thier rolls. Plus, it will be me playing the team.

The other idea I had was the use a roster simular to the MBBL2 converted to our semi vault league

0-12 marauders 6 3 3 7 G M 60K + random skill
0-4 chaos warriors 5 4 3 9 G S M 100K
0-1 Ogre (you know the stats and skills) 140K S M
Reroll 70K
The random skills were a d20 table

1: Spring Back
2: Catch
3: Dauntless
4: Dirty Player
5: Dodge
6: Frenzy
7: Guard
8: Grab
9: Jump Up
10: Tackle
11: Block
12: Pass
13: Wrestle
14: Sure Hands
15: Kick
16: Pro
17: Mighty Blow
18: Fend
19-20: Rdm Mutation (roll furhter d10 for vault mutations)

Lots of random fun!!!

The question is, does this team fulfill my goals

I think it is stronger in the short term due to a wide variety of skills and it will definatly be weaker in the longterm due to 7AV and lack of S access. Maybe too weak....

The second question is does AV 7 really limit a bash team if you have 4 chaos warriors and an ogre to do most of the bashing? Norse does bad becacause their is no one to stand on the front line and take the bash. But Chaos Dwarves and Lizardmen both have squishy 7 AV, but thier high AV guys distract the opponents most of the time. Its really hard to hunt hobbies and skinks whey your being beaten on by 6 sauruses or chaos dwarves.

But Chaos only gets 5 guys to distract thier opponents, and at the start, its tough to afford more than 2 chaos warriors and get some rerolls, etc.

Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2005 4:19 pm
by atropabelladonna
Nazgit wrote:Have a look at the team listed at the end of this thread. I think it does pretty much what you want. :)
I have looked at the team and it does interest me. I will have to make a decision soon, as we start the league tomorrow!!

Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2005 4:38 pm
by Joemanji
atropabelladonna wrote:0-12 marauders 6 3 3 7 G M 60K + random skill
0-4 chaos warriors 5 4 3 9 G S M 100K
0-1 Ogre (you know the stats and skills) 140K S M
Reroll 70K
The random skills were a d20 table

1: Spring Back
2: Catch
3: Dauntless
4: Dirty Player
5: Dodge
6: Frenzy
7: Guard
8: Grab
9: Jump Up
10: Tackle
11: Block
12: Pass
13: Wrestle
14: Sure Hands
15: Kick
16: Pro
17: Mighty Blow
18: Fend
19-20: Rdm Mutation (roll furhter d10 for vault mutations)

Lots of random fun!!!
I actually like this team alot. It could be a whole lot of fun! :D The team I linked to was an attempt to create a roster within a framework that could be made official. Your roster is clearly house-ruley, but if that is how you play, then that is cool! :D

The random skills do make the AV 7 players more appealing, and I take your point about having five AV 9 players to do most of the bashing. I'd give it a go, but be ready to change it if the teams starts over performing.

Best of luck!

Cheers
Naz / Joe :D

Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2005 4:54 pm
by atropabelladonna
Nazgit wrote:I actually like this team alot. It could be a whole lot of fun! :D The team I linked to was an attempt to create a roster within a framework that could be made official. Your roster is clearly house-ruley, but if that is how you play, then that is cool! :D

The random skills do make the AV 7 players more appealing, and I take your point about having five AV 9 players to do most of the bashing. I'd give it a go, but be ready to change it if the teams starts over performing.

Best of luck!

Cheers
Naz / Joe :D
Thanks for the thumbs up! I am going to give it a go. My only worry is the AV 7 and no S access in the long term. The marauaders kinda get vairable skill access with thier first skill, so you have to develop them depending on what you get.

Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2005 9:50 pm
by Sallacious
What league do you commish Atropabelladonna ? and where?