Blood Bowl 40,000

[Arven]

Hello TalkBloodBowl

I am in the process of writing a ruleset to convert BB to BB40k. I have written so far the rules for 14 teams, 3 new Leagues/tournaments and several little rule changes, as well as a HulkBowl supplement (Dungeonbowl on 40k).

I have started a similar thread on the Speciallist Games forum: http://www.specialist-games.com/forum/t ... IC_ID=5544

I now ask if there is interest here to help me out, particularly in terms of balancing and properly representing each of the teams.

[Joemanji]

I do believe that a series of participation games were run at a Games Day several years ago for 40K BB. They converted up the teams for each 40K race, but used existing BB rosters to represent them. So for example, Eldar = High Elves, with Swooping Hawks = Catchers, Dark Reapers = Throwers etc...

Perhaps not an exact fit, but close enough without having to go to the trouble of rebalancing a whole system.

[Arven]

Hmm, that's interesting... but I aim to go further, adding more details to merge BB and 40k better.

[pac]

I now ask if there is interest here to help me out, particularly in terms of balancing and properly representing each of the teams.

The big problem I would see with this would be with … Space Marines (as usual).

They are giant superhumans in powered armour, who are balanced in 40K by the fact that most of their enemies usually outnumber them about 10 to 1. This is not so easy to do in Blood Bowl …

The minimum stats that could accurately depict a marine would be (imo): 6 4 4 9 GAS. No starting skills, except that they should probably have Regen (read their fluff and tell me how you think you could kill one of these things with your bare hands …). That would have to be priced at somewhere approaching 200K, which means two problems: how are you going to get a team of 11 together? And: it doesn't matter how expensive you make them, those players are just far too powerful!

Also, I can't think of a sensible nega-trait to give them (except perhaps, <i>We have more important things to do!</i>: roll a dice for each marine before the match, on a 1-3 he is away defending the Imperium and cannot participate in the match).

Of course, you could make Scouts the basis of the team, with only a couple of marines, but I'm not sure that would really solve the problem …

Perhaps the best solution would be to have an <i>Imperial</i> team list, on which 1 or 2 Space Marines were available (effectively as Big Guys for the team). Then they could be given Loner (you can say that they don't operate in perfect harmony with the other imperial forces).

Other than the marine problem, the rest is detail, I think.

[Joemanji]

The minimum stats that could accurately depict a marine would be (imo): 6 4 4 9 GAS.

Why would they have to be great at ball handling? And why so fast? Drop a point of MV and AG and you have a Chaos Warrior. IIRC the Games Day system subbed Chaos for Marines.

In 40K, points values are used to balance power troop types. In BB the method is positional limits. There is not problem IMO in having 0-16 scouts with 0-4 Marines.

[mlindsay2706]

The minimum stats that could accurately depict a marine would be (imo): 6 4 4 9 GAS.

Why would they have to be great at ball handling? And why so fast? Drop a point of MV and AG and you have a Chaos Warrior. IIRC the Games Day system subbed Chaos for Marines.

In 40K, points values are used to balance power troop types. In BB the method is positional limits. There is not problem IMO in having 0-16 scouts with 0-4 Marines.

Id very much agree here. Cant see any real problems

like its been said, its just detail.

[Darkson]

The minimum stats that could accurately depict a marine would be (imo): 6 4 4 9 GAS.

Why would they have to be great at ball handling? And why so fast? Drop a point of MV and AG and you have a Chaos Warrior. IIRC the Games Day system subbed Chaos for Marines.

Cos according to the fluff, marines have always been as fast, stronger and more dexterous than basic humans.

[pac]

Cos according to the fluff, marines have always been as fast, stronger and more dexterous than basic humans.

Exactly. I'd even say that a higher MA (7) would also probably be more accurate than a lower one.

You <i>could</i> do them with Chaos Warrior stats: but then you haven't really got marines, imo, which defeats the point of the exercise.

And even Scouts … I don't see them as ST 3 AG 3 players. Edit: Which is to say, of course the solution is positional limits, but what is there on the marine list which (if statted consistently to the fluff) could be a reasonably priced 'Lineman'? I don't think there is anything (unless someone wants to run a Servitor team …), which is why I'd make them part of an Imperial roster.

[kadu-c]

GW French Mail Order created some rules for 40k BB many years ago.
Well the teams were really "overpowered"... especially the Tyranids (Claws for everyone yeehaa
If I recall correctly, Marines had the stats of Chaos Warriors. They played in the same team that Imperial Guards and Terminators.

[Mootaz]

I'd just use the Vampire team for the Imperials/Space Marines. The Vampire stats fit nicely for a Space Marine, the Thralls are the Imperial soldiers. And every once in a while a SM freaks out and wants to "punish" one of the "Thralls" for some heresy or the other -> Bloodlust. We just have to explain hypnotic gaze but this should be manageable.

[Fronko]

I believe that a sufficiently grim looking marine could "stare down" any foe, wouldnt you agree?

[Joemanji]

Cos according to the fluff, marines have always been as fast, stronger and more dexterous than basic humans.

WFB stats do not correspond to BB stats, so why should an exact correlation exist for 40K? In WFB Ogres are faster than Elves are faster than Humans (6-5-4). In BB it is 5-6-6. You have to think laterally. Why would Marines in power armour be faster than a normal Human? WFB to BB comparisons have shown that speed over the battefield does not matter in terms of BB MV.... e.g. Treemen. If you were creating a 40K version of BB, you'd need to consider balance first, 40K fluff second.

[fen]

Turn the space marines into Vampire-a-likes then. Except they have no ability to bite thralls, so instead they go prone through over-genetic enhancements.

Of course, they're supposed to be the perfect warriors, so why would this happen?
Simple, only inferior semi-rejects are released to play BB. The rest of them are needed in War efforts. (Much like the vampires, the weaker Vamps are the ones that actually play BB.)

And it would amuse me no end to have Space Marine fans complain repeatedly "the space marines r waek, y u make them so bad?"

[pac]

… you'd need to consider balance first, 40K fluff second.

Of course, but you still need to consider both (whatever the order). If you end up with a team of players which is perfectly balanced but who just don't <i>feel</i> like Space Marines, what was the point of the exercise?

I'd rather have one or two players who performed as I would expect a marine to on an 'Imperial' team, than have an all-Space-Marine team that didn't really live up to its billing. Both solutions could certainly work, though: it's up to Arven in this case to decide how to do it.


The only other suggestion I'd make would be to give the players on all these lists <i>as few starting skills as possible</i>. There's going to be a tendency to want to over-design the 'positionals' in order to reflect the fluff as well as possible, but imo you will end up with better lists if each player has the bare minimum of skills needed to describe him/her/it.

[jware30]

I would love to see the secret weapons for a 40K Blood Bowl game.

Power Fists, Chain Swords, LasCannon...