Talk Fantasy Football

Objectives:

I) I want to flavor LRB5 with the 3rd ed. rulebook. My coaches want more blood and more money than LRB5, without major balance shifts.

II) A huge overhaul is inevitable, but each element must in itself feel straightforward and fun. There should be more bells and whistles than LRB5.

III) Inducements should be weakened, but teams should be able to spend some cash on in-game advantages without just dumping free money on the opponent. Big-discrepancy games shouldn't feel hopeless like they did in the 3rd ed, but no-one should ever be tempted to complain that they got killed by inducements alone.

IV) We're using Free Fan Factor (5), so FF doesn't count for TV and you can't buy it.

V) Note that most inducements have been replaced with card decks. There are two kinds of decks: Basic Decks (Bribe the Ref, Dirty Tricks, Extra Training, random Events) and Advanced Decks (Magic Items, Magic Spells, Special Staff, the Twelfth Man) are dependent on 50k coaching staff to take (Alchemist, Wizard, Manager, Mascot), are limited to 1 each, and are a little less random and slightly more powerful. In general, cards are like 100k LRB5 cards (better for Advanced Decks), but there is a little permanent stuff: not nearly as much as in 3rd edition, but some.

So...

A) TV calculation:
Total value of all players attending match (per LRB5), plus
Total value of all coaching staff, plus
Total value of all Team Re-Roll counters, plus
Treasury
(note: no FF)

B) Pre-Match Sequence

1) Roll on Weather Table

2) Work out the Gate (2d6+FF for each coach). Work out FAME -- no effect on winnings, but in-game effects as normal (I'm not playing with the kickoff table).

3) Work out TV difference: this is Handicap Fund, and is also used as Underdog Rating in the Post-Match Sequence.

4) Allocate funds for Treasury. Starting with overdog, each coach moves money from Treasury to Emergency Funds. The first 50k so spent is matched by the bank. See the thread on "Hosing Journeymen," but Emergency Funds the most cost-efficient way to buy rookie Mercs (essentially the old Freebooter rule). Remember, it's all calculated in TV already, including unspent funds (like in Death Zone).

5) Purchase Inducements, including Journeymen, one at a time, starting with overdog. Using Treasury or Handicap Fund (no mix-n-match), you may purchase any inducements listed, except as noted. See the related thread "hosing journeymen" (I'll put the link in). Note two things: a) overdogs can be forced to start short men (but underdogs can't, except inasmuch as they use all their Handicap in taking Journeymen), and b) less than 100k in Handicap Fund is usable only for Journeymen. C'est la vie, and not subject to change. Note also that Treasury (well, up to 50k) is just as good in-game as it was in 3rd ed, or maybe even better, as 50k can buy you a card (cards are 100k each, but in practice Advanced ones are 200k in inducements or 100k plus 50k in on-roster coaching staff).

6) Each coach draws a card from any deck they're allowed. One draw per deck for Advanced decks.

7) Pre-match card play.

Coin Flip.

C) Post-Match Sequence:
1) Last chance for cards n' stuff.

2) Calculate underdog bonus. Note that this is a fixed league, so huge discrepancies indicate an underdog team on the serious wrong path.
Diff <160k: nothing.
160k-300k: If Udog wins, take higher of 2d winnings, add MVP.
310k-500k: If Udog wins, take higher of 2d winnings, add MVP plus MVP of choice. If Udog loses, take higher of 2d winnings, add MVP.
510k+: Win or lose, take higher of 2d winnings and 2 MVPs. If you win, add an extra MVP of choice.
Limit one MVP per player.

3) Generate winnings:
10k per 5k gate total
10k for winner
-10k for every 30k TV
Minimum 0 at this point, then
1d6x10k.

4) Generate MVPs, make rolls, assign improvements (you can make all your rolls before making any of your assignations, but you must do all of it at the table).

5) Roll FF, as per LRB5.

7) Make Purchases.

Clean up Roster, recalculate TV.

Too much? It makes me cringe, but it's not really any more complex than LRB5.

Feel free to throw stones at this one. It's not done yet.

If you are not playing with the kickoff table, why calculate FAME? Unless I am missing something FAME is only used for Kickoff and winnings...

If Tresary counts for Team Value there is no reason to hoard money! Do players have a Bank at all? Just have the 50k in Tresaruy and spend it as 100k each game. You only save if a player dies so you can replace them after 1-2 games.

3) Generate winnings:
10k per 5k gate total
-10k for every 30k TV

What about Fractions? Is this per 5k/30k round up or down?
So 6k Gate = +10 or +20?

Average Gate is going to be 12k Fans.
Min/Max 2d6 (2-12) + FF (2-18) = 4-30 which is +0 to +60k

If you want to create more 3rd ed feel the most important thing is to make inducements less reliable, they can be either better or worse than balanced. Using cards is a good way, but the LRB5 cards are just too reliable for the feel you're looking for. Do you mix different value cards in the decks? You might combine 100k and 50k cards in such a way that the everage cost is 70k and then use them as 70k inducements, that way you create more random effectiveness of the inducements. Another thing I would do is limit stars and mercs to 1 instead of 2 to make sure the cards are taken.

Marlow wrote:If you are not playing with the kickoff table, why calculate FAME? Unless I am missing something FAME is only used for Kickoff and winnings...

Fame is normal for kickoff table. I meant to say we're using the LRB5 kickoff table unchanged. I'm just divorcing FAME from winnings to add money.

If Tresary counts for Team Value there is no reason to hoard money!

Correct. In fact, if it works right, successful bash teams will be giving away fat inducements and drawing a card every other match or so.

Do players have a Bank at all? Just have the 50k in Tresaruy and spend it as 100k each game. You only save if a player dies so you can replace them after 1-2 games.

Yeah. That's pretty accurate. In 3rd, teams that suffer buy more, teams that don't are always looking for ways to ditch extraneous TV. I'm a bit worried that the end result will be that Orc-type teams simply buy a card every match: I could easily make a "cards only with Handicap" rule so that the best they could do was hire a freebooter. That might help get me where I'm going -- that way, a stylin' bash team will find itself always short of ways to dump TV.

3) Generate winnings:
10k per 5k gate total
-10k for every 30k TV

What about Fractions? Is this per 5k/30k round up or down?
So 6k Gate = +10 or +20?

Oops. Everything rounds down. 6k gate = +10k. 1.19M TV = -30k (as it's less than 1.2M).

Average Gate is going to be 12k Fans.
Min/Max 2d6 (2-12) + FF (2-18) = 4-30 which is +0 to +60k[/quote]

Total gate. So using the starting FF5 (see note on free FF), 2x5+2d6+2d6 averages 24k fans, or 4.8 extra winnings (well, less, as fractions come down), less 3 to start for Spiraling Expenses.

I missed Total Gate. Winning are more like LRB4 then.

If you are still allowing Bribes I can see Bashy teams just sinking extra cash into those. With a Fixed league the extra MVP's for the Underdog are not going to come out that often.

I think just the idea of "more money" "more blood" simply isn't a sound principle. At the very best, it will take serious balancing. Even in the current LRB system, some teams acquire money, some teams always need it. This was worse in standard 3rd Edition, and it all stems from casualties.

How about a slighty different tact? Increase money overall slightly, but target the teams who have been hammered with more winnings. Maybe +10k per serious injury or worse inflicted upon you?

Another idea, which requires some book-keeping, is insurance policies. An insurance policy could cost 30k per player, or half the player's value, etc. If the player dies in a match or suffers a Serious Injury that causes the coach to retire the player, then the coach gains a rookie at that positional.

I've played in a league like this and not run into serious problems... it was actually my league;s answer to the original 3rd Edition rules (with the straight 2d6 injury table, modifiable by Claw, Mighty Blow, and Razor Sharp Claws/Fangs...)

Anyway, good luck in balancing it all out. More bloody games would certainly be rewarding for many coaches!

Jural wrote:I think just the idea of "more money" "more blood" simply isn't a sound principle. At the very best, it will take serious balancing. Even in the current LRB system, some teams acquire money, some teams always need it. This was worse in standard 3rd Edition, and it all stems from casualties.

viewtopic.php?t=24479

Does this, along with more-blood-more-money, solve the problem as you perceive it, then? There will be more Cas results, but 25% fewer deaths per Cas (the difference made up in SIs, with a 3e perspective on permanent damage... note that this too is softer than LRB5).

How about a slighty different tact? Increase money overall slightly, but target the teams who have been hammered with more winnings. Maybe +10k per serious injury or worse inflicted upon you?

Combined Gate for Winnings plus Free FF does just that, but in a round-about sort of way. When facing winning teams, you get an additional 2k per point of FF attributed to that team's winning-ness. Or do you mean more of a boost than that?

Another idea, which requires some book-keeping, is insurance policies. An insurance policy could cost 30k per player, or half the player's value, etc. If the player dies in a match or suffers a Serious Injury that causes the coach to retire the player, then the coach gains a rookie at that positional.

I like the principle, but it is a tad wonky. How about this: When a player dies during a match (not when he is released) and is subsequently erased from the team roster, the team gets a Death Benefit after the match. A Death Benefit is 10,000 GC, plus 10,000 GC per improvement the player had. I'm not sure I want to use it, but I like it.