Cleaning Up Chaos for Options Rules

[mattgslater]

OK, I've wanted to address this for a long long time. Chaos sucks. They're only fun on paper. They don't need a LOT, but they really need something.

So... using the Options rules (each team gets one Option in addition to a truncated roster, sufficient to construct the LRB5 team or diverge from it for an equivalent roster), I have two ideas:

A) Give Chaos teams one extra option. I like this because it lets me add in a lot of flexibility. I'm concerned because of the potential power impact (two big guys?) and the fact that it's specialized rules for a team, which grates on me.

B) Give Chaos teams one extra positional. I like this because it's clean and controllable. I'm concerned because I'm not sure what positional to include. Maybe the Mutant listed below?

Here are the options I was considering for Chaos. Most of my coaches rebel against the CP/UWP teams as listed, so I'm trying to incorporate an element or two of those in the Options. Note that all of these options are exclusive, so unless we go with A, above, you don't have to game for how they combine. If we do go with A, the Chaos Goblin goes bye-bye: I can replace it with an Ungor or something that's like a gobbo but doesn't have Right Stuff. Yeah, I'm leaning to B now. Still open to suggestions.

I: 1-2 Players: Teams may mix-and-match from this list, for a total of two players.
* 0-2 Chaos Goblins: 6/2/3/7, Animosity, Dodge, Stunty, Right Stuff, AM, 40k
* 0-2 Skaven: 7/3/3/7, Animosity, GM, 50k
* 0-1 Dark Elves: 6/3/4/8, Animosity, GAM, 70k
* 0-2 Mutants: 6/3/3/8, one Mutation of choice, GM, 70k
* 0-2 Bestigor: 6/3/3/9, Block, GSM, 100k

II: 1 Big Guy.
* 0-1 Minotaur @ 150k
* 0-1 Chaos Ogre @ 140k (M on doubles)
* 0-1 Chaos Troll @ 110k (M on doubles)

So, the real options are:
Fair receiver without much speed (DE, Goblin)
Mediocre low-speed receiver (Rat)
Toolbox jump so you can focus on Block (Mutant)
Blitzer (Bestigor)
Big Guy Fullback/MLB (Mino)
Big Guy Tackle (Troll)
Big Guy Tackle/LB (Ogre)

WDYT? Am I right about adding the extra roster positional? If I do Mutants, should I then take them out of Options?

[whitetiger]

B looks good, but I would drop the gobbo. Otherwise, I think it would be a workable solution.

[Duke Jan]

OK, I've wanted to address this for a long long time. Chaos sucks. They're only fun on paper. They don't need a LOT, but they really need something.

Having played chaos for a few years now, I wholeheartedly disagree. The only thing I could imagine is giving Chaos back the choice of Big Guy. It doesn't add much but since it didn't take away much either I still don't understand why the BBRC deemed it necessary to remove the option for LRB5.

[mattgslater]

1) What if I leave the Mino on the roster? Then, it's 0-16 BM, 0-4 CW, 0-1 Mino, plus an option, leaving 2 BGs available, so long as one is a Mino. That leads to balance concerns... but sounds like fun, and fixes the problem I perceive without a bunch of gymnastics.

2) @ Whitetiger: What's fundamentally wrong with a Goblin Mutant available on a roster with no TTM access? Because that's what I'm talking about (see that Troll? If I take option B, it's him OR the Gobbo, so he has no chance of using TTM).

[coma]

Add marauders from chaos pact and boost the beastmen with another skill or so and make them 0-4 or something (and more expensive).

Something like that I could like doing for more positionals in a chaos team. If I wanted more BGs I would play the chaos pact team. I also hate to mix in dark elves and skaven just to make some touchdownmonsters. This will work in the chaospact team and you all know why.

[Jural]

I'd say leave the two big men schtick for Stunties and Chaos Pact... It would work better in your league though because stacking Lord Borak and Ripper on top of two rostered Big Guys and 4 Chaos Warriors would NOT be an option.

I would also prefer a positional, and I think the easiest way to do it would be to add 0-4 Marauders or 0-4 Mutants (0-2 if it fits your bill.)

I like the Mutants being based off of a Marauder anyway, so you could have:

0-4 6 3 3 8 <Mutation> 70k GPM/SA

(or something like that)

[Aliboon]

To be honest, I think your original suggestion has already been covered by Chaos Pact, but, to throw another idea into the mix....

To go Khorne, the Chaos Warriors get the option of frenzy for an extra 10k (obvious from WFB).
To go Slaanash, mmm, Chaos Warriors get the option of initial mutations for 20k (but each start off mutation can't be replicated)
To go Tzeentch, the Chaos Warriors get the option of Pro for an extra 10k. (Changer of the Ways-can manipulate fate.)

All fluffy (I do like a bit of fluff), but not too overpowering i don't think.(and whilst fluff should neve determine rules, if it fits, then, what is the harm?).

Adds a little flavour, but not too overpowering (and as i see it, Chaos are goof enough at high TV, but not as rookies). I haven't costed rookie teams with the above, so may be completely off beam...

[Kyrel]

Personally I'd add a Mutant.

0-2 6337 Two free mutations GM 90.000GCs


/Kyrel

[PubBowler]

To go Khorne, the Chaos Warriors get the option of frenzy for an extra 10k (obvious from WFB).
To go Slaanash, mmm, Chaos Warriors get the option of initial mutations for 20k (but each start off mutation can't be replicated)
To go Tzeentch, the Chaos Warriors get the option of Pro for an extra 10k. (Changer of the Ways-can manipulate fate.)

All fluffy (I do like a bit of fluff), but not too overpowering i don't think.(and whilst fluff should neve determine rules, if it fits, then, what is the harm?).

I would worry about all of these being over powered.

I'm especially concerned with first and third options as the Khorne bonus would make them Ulfs who are harder to kill and skill up more quickly and Tzeentch as dramatically improving teh reliability of the CWs.

[mattgslater]

Fun idea, but it doesn't fix my rules, as I'd have to make them Options (not solving our problem) or make special rules for one roster but not for others (I call that failure: you know your house rules still need stirring if they're lumpy). I could make four nearly-identical rosters, but that too is ugly in my book.