Talk Fantasy Football

OK, for my Options rules, here's what I'm thinking for Elves. In all cases, the team has one Option, chosen from those on the list. Star Players taken as Options will be a little cheaper (closer to 3e cards, but a little pricier), and SWs will mostly be handled as rostered player options and not stars (but that's neither here nor there with elves).

So, how's the balance on this?

Dark Elves
0-16 Linos
0-2 Runners
0-2 Corsairs (Blitzers)
0-2 Witches
-- Dark Elf Options --
1 Star or 1-2 players from the following list:
0-2 Assassins (MA7, 100k)
0-2 Corsairs (Blitzers)
0-2 Executioners (by popular demand, 100k, 6/3/4/9 Piling On, GA/PS)
0-2 Levies (Pro Elves)

Pro Elves
0-16 Linos
0-2 Throwers
0-2 Catchers
0-2 Blitzers
-- Pro Elf Options --
1 Star or 1-2 players from the following list:
0-2 Blockers (Dark/High Elf Linemen)
0-2 Runners (Wood Elf Linemen)
0-2 Catchers
0-1 Corsair/Dragon Warrior

High Elves
0-16 Linos
0-2 Phoenix Warriors (Throwers, new rules)
0-2 Lion Warriors (Catchers)
0-2 Dragon Warriors (Catchers)
-- High Elf Options --
1 Star or 1-2 players from the following list:
0-2 Lion Warriors
0-2 Dragon Warriors
0-2 Levies (Pro Elves)

Wood Elves
0-16 Linos
0-2 Throwers
0-2 Catchers (MA9)
0-2 Wardancers
-- Wood Elf Options --
1 Star or 1 Treeman or 1-2 players from the following list:
0-2 Catchers
0-2 Levies (Pro Elves)

Note that 2 Levies on HE/WE/DE brings minimum player cost to 75. This allows HE to take two Dragon Warriors, two Lion/Phoenix Warriors and 3 RRs or 2 RRs and an Apoth on 1M. Woodies can take 2 Dancers, a Tree or two positionals, and 2 RRs. Is this too good? How about the other stuff: fluffy enough? Is the limit on Woodie Catchers comparable to the MA reduction? I think it would go down a lot better here.

Hmmm...

Dark Elves
0-16 linos
0-2 Witches
0-4 Blitzers
0-2 Runners
0-1 Option

Options
1-2 Assassins (standard)
1-2 Elf Thralls (Pro Elves)
1-2 Executioners (5/3/4/9 Piling On, GA 90k)
1 Rostered Star

Better? Cleaner for sure. I could do the same with Woodies, going to the MA8 model and making them 0-4 on the roster, then knocking them off the Options list. I would say that I'd want to replace them with a credible option, but the truth is 0-2 PE linos on a Wood Elf team is really really good, because it allows you to get 2 WDs and your choice of 3 RRs or 2 RRs and an Apo.

That broken, isn't it? What about... hmmm... suggestions? Or are you just not following?

That second Dark Elf line-up is too much, I think. The assassin is a throw away piece, and the executioner is a nice piece.

But the first Dark Elf lineup is redundant, because 0-4 blitzers is the way to go, so you are basically removing assassins from the game.

I suggest the assassin is a permanent rostered option if you want to keep it, and you move the runners (corsairs) into the options spot.

So 0-4 blitzers, 0-2 witches, 0-2 assassins, and a choice of 1-2 pro elf linemen, or executioners, or corsairs.

The question is then- does 2 executioners, 2 witches, 2 assassins, and 4 blitzers make the Dark Elf team too good? It might with the AV 9 executioner... Any chance of making him AV 8?

I need to look over the other two teams a bit more, but it looks like Wood Elves get a slight nerf by either getting a treeman or 0-4 catchers... but most around my way don't ever use all 4 catchers anyway. I think it's fine to keep them at 9 MA and no sprint with this system, it is probably a moot point.

Thanks.

How about this?
0-16 Linos
0-2 Runners
0-2 Assassins
0-2 Blitzers
0-2 Witches
0-1 Option
Options
1 Star
1-2 Players chosen from this list:
* Executioners
* Thralls (PE linos)
* Blitzers

The other question: if you could sack 1MA on two Woodie linos instead of having a Tree or the #3-4 Catchers, and in so doing save 20k (letting you have 2xWD and 3RRs), would you? How emphatically so? I'm not worried about High and Dark Elves in this context: the 20k savings isn't as important and the Pro Elf profile only looks tempting as a lino if you're a Wood Elf.

mattgslater wrote:Thanks.

How about this?
0-16 Linos
0-2 Runners
0-2 Assassins
0-2 Blitzers
0-2 Witches
0-1 Option
Options
1 Star
1-2 Players chosen from this list:
* Executioners
* Thralls (PE linos)
* Blitzers

The other question: if you could sack 1MA on two Woodie linos instead of having a Tree or the #3-4 Catchers, and in so doing save 20k (letting you have 2xWD and 3RRs), would you? How emphatically so? I'm not worried about High and Dark Elves in this context: the 20k savings isn't as important and the Pro Elf profile only looks tempting as a lino if you're a Wood Elf.

I'd give that Dark Elf roster a shot... I think the Executioner is a cool enough idea that someone might consider (foolishly, in my mind) not picking up 2 blitzers. The thralls are meh, but that's OK. I prefer the corsair as an option, but that does work for me.

As for the Wood Elves, I think the two catchers are a minimal loss, but in longterm league play the tree makes a difference. I wouldn't give him up for fodder... although it is tempting. And tempting is probably enough, right?

Jural wrote:I prefer the corsair as an option, but that does work for me.

So you're saying that you like my renaming of the Blitzer?

As for the Wood Elves, I think the two catchers are a minimal loss, but in longterm league play the tree makes a difference. I wouldn't give him up for fodder... although it is tempting. And tempting is probably enough, right?

To nerf or not to nerf: that is the question. Whether 'tis nobler on the pitch to suffer the Leaps and blitzes of outrageous cheesiness or to take arms against a sea of positionals, and by Option-izing, make the coach pick 'twixt them.

What do others think of the potential value of Levies as a way to save that critical 20k? Is the loss of a Treeman and/or 2 Catchers of equal or greater consequence than the ability to start 3TRR and still have both Dancers?

Can a coach stick the pro-elves on the line till they need retiring and pick up a treeman later?

I do like corsairs as blitzers, BUT I meant to say runner instead of corsair or blitzer. Basically, I like the idea of choosing between 0-2 executioners, or 0-2 runners, or 0-2 pro elf linemen. You really need to choose the focus of your team.

For Wood Elves, your options are asking a team to choose between short term (3 re-rolls, or 2 and an apoth, with the 2 pro elf linemen) longterm (treeman) or a full down accelerator (4 catchers eventually.) My wood elf experience says you rarely get to 4 catchers anyway, and you are a fine starting side with jut 2 re-rolls a wardancer, and a catcher, as long as both wardancers survive the first game and you can get an apoth. So it's really tempting- which is what you are looking for, right; Several ways to build a team, all of which are tempting?

I think I would pretty much always choose the tree, but that's just me. One less player to get hammered on the LOS, and with guard and grab, a player who can really help open up holes so you don't need to leap as much... But I may be less bothered by only 2 re-rolls than some coaches.

Caelwyn wrote:Can a coach stick the pro-elves on the line till they need retiring and pick up a treeman later?

Yes, so long as the PEs and the Tree aren't on the same roster at the same time.

mattgslater wrote:

Caelwyn wrote:Can a coach stick the pro-elves on the line till they need retiring and pick up a treeman later?

Yes, so long as the PEs and the Tree aren't on the same roster at the same time.

That changes everything... 100% of all wood elf coaches should and would choose the Pro elves. 2 catchers, 2 wardancers, and 2 re-rolls with 20k saved for an apoth please!

Jural wrote:That changes everything... 100% of all wood elf coaches should and would choose the Pro elves. 2 catchers, 2 wardancers, and 2 re-rolls with 20k saved for an apoth please!

It would be 10k saved, but that is otherwise an option. Why do you see this roster as so optimal by comparison? The Pro Elves would prohibit you from getting the Tree until you fired them, and to fire the PEs and hire a Tree, you'd need to hire another player on the way, in addition to replacing all losses.

mattgslater wrote:Why do you see this roster as so optimal by comparison?

My Wood Elves are constantly down players and using journeymen, especially through the first 15 games or so. Putting the Pro Elves on the line (which is where they belong) means they'll probably be injured, but even if they are lucky and survive awhile, playing with 4 journeymen instead of 2 isn't that big of a deal!

I'd save up until I had about 200k in the bank and an apoth, then I'd fire the Pro Elves and get a tree. If the Pro Elves soak up some casualties and die or are replaced naturally in the meantime, more's the better!

Ah.

We play a 12-game regular season, plus a tournament, so banking the 200k will be difficult (in fact, it's probably close to half the total season's haul). Does that change things? Maybe I should implement a "you can't fire players if you don't keep 11 guys on roster" rule... but I'm not sure it's necessary.

mattgslater wrote:Ah.

We play a 12-game regular season, plus a tournament, so banking the 200k will be difficult (in fact, it's probably close to half the total season's haul). Does that change things? Maybe I should implement a "you can't fire players if you don't keep 11 guys on roster" rule... but I'm not sure it's necessary.

For me, it wouldn't change my strategy, because there would be no way to start with the tree and have an acceptable line-up- and 4 catchers just isn't happening in 12 games. (Also, in my mind 4 catchers just isn't necessary.)

The drawback is that your team will rely on more journeymen, and the tree, if you get him, will not have time to skill up barring a bit of luck. So an unskilled tree (compared to a grab+guard tree) is a huge deal. The idea has it's own drawbacks in your format, but I still think it's the best one... especially if teams can return for a 2nd or more seasons.

Cool. I can live with that.