Talk Fantasy Football

Posted: **Tue Jul 13, 2010 1:34 pm**

Hello

Here are two teams created to replace the Chaos teams in our league.
We will test to see if we can allow them. But to see if they are worth we would like to submit these teams to the review of a large audience of veteran players.

Could you tell me what you think of them?

Do you think they are playable? balanced? Interesting? Broken?

Would you play these teams in a league?

Do you have any suggestions to improve their interest?

Thank you

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Qty	Title	Cost	MA	ST	AG	AV	Skills	Talent
0-16	Ungors	40,000	6	3	3	7	None	GM*
0-4 	Gors	60,000	6	3	3	8	Horns	GSM*
0-2 	Centigors	90,000	7	3	3	8	Horns , Sprint, Sure Feet	GM*
0-2 	Bestigors	110,000	6	4	2	8	Horns	GSM*
0-1 	Minotaur	150,000	5	5	2	8	Horns, Mighty Blow, Frenzy, Loner, Thick Skull, Wild Animal	SM*
Re-roll counter: 50,000 gold pieces each
*Mutation on a doubles skill roll.

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Qty	Title	Cost	MA	ST	AG	AV	Skills	Talent
0-16	Marauders	50,000	6	3	3	8	None	GSM
0-4 	Chaos Warriors	100,000	5	4	3	9	None	GSM
0-1 	Chaos Troll 	110,000	4	5	1	9	Regenerate, Mighty Blow, Throw Team Mate, Loner, Really Stupid, Always Hungry	SM*
0-1 	Chaos Ogre	140,000	5	5	2	9	Thick Skull, Mighty Blow, Throw Team Mate, Loner, Bonehead	SM*
Re-roll counter: 60,000 gold pieces each. 
*Chaos Troll, Chaos Ogre may only take a mutation on a doubles skill roll.

Posted: **Tue Jul 13, 2010 1:56 pm**

I think that its an interesting concept. Unfortunately, I think that the second team suffers a little as its too close to the Chaos Pact roster.

The first seems much more appealing to me. Very characterful and thematic. The Str4 Horns blitzers worry me a little, but given their cost (110k) and limited numbers (0-2), I think that they won't break the team.

I'd be interested to know about your playtesting - got my eye on this for my league.

Posted: **Tue Jul 13, 2010 7:07 pm**

The Bestigors have AG2?? I would have thought that with a 110K cost that AG3 would have been more appropriate??

As for the Centigors adding +1 MV, Sprint, Sure Feet [take away S access] for only +30K seems a little cheap to me. This positional feels like a 100K player to me.

The Ungors seem inexpensive which should allow you to take all postionals [except Big Guy] and also get 4 team RRs to start with. That seems a little too good to me.

Honestly I would lean towards making the Ungors a little more pricey so the team could [at most] start with only 3 team RRs if they buy all their positionals. The "fluff" says that Ungors are more agile than Gors so maybe give them GAM access for 50K?? If that's too pricey maybe give them Horns to make the 50K more palatable??

EDIT: I'm not saying all of the above are issues or anything. I'm just thinking that a tweak or two may be a good idea.

Posted: **Tue Jul 13, 2010 11:50 pm**

I forgot to add:

-- On the Chaos Warrior team why add 2 big guys in when you have 4 ST 4 AV9 players?? Why not just one big guy [Ogre?] with full access to mutations [SM / GAP]

-- Have you thought about trying to introduce a Chaos Spawn type player to one of the teams??

Possible example: [use Beast of Nurgle as a template]:
Chaos Spawn MV 4 ; ST 5 ; AG 1 ; AV9 Cost 150K
Skills: Loner, Wild Animal, No Hands, Claw, Foul Appearance, Horns, Prehensile Tail, Tentacles
Skill access to SM / GA

If you don't like the above skill mix fitting skills could be things like Break Tackle, Mighty Blow, Thick Skull, Regeneration, Disturbing Presence, Frenzy, etc.

Posted: **Tue Jul 13, 2010 11:53 pm**

I like your second roster. Although it seems way more powerful than the actual Chaos roster, so maybe you could increase the Reroll price to 70 k ?
Also, i regret you dropped the Pass skills for Marauder : i think chaos team should be able to develop their team for (almost) any kind of play...

Posted: **Wed Jul 14, 2010 12:24 am**

I like the fluff a LOT. The beastmen only team would look awesome and chaos warrior team looks badass as well. Well done for coming up with this.

Code: Select all

Qty	Title	Cost	MA	ST	AG	AV	Skills	Talent
0-16	Ungors	40,000	6	3	3	7	None	GM*
0-4 	Gors	60,000	6	3	3	8	Horns	GSM*
0-2 	Centigors	90,000	7	3	3	8	Horns , Sprint, Sure Feet	GM*
0-2 	Bestigors	110,000	6	4	2	8	Horns	GSM*
0-1 	Minotaur	150,000	5	5	2	8	Horns, Mighty Blow, Frenzy, Loner, Thick Skull, Wild Animal	SM*
Re-roll counter: 50,000 gold pieces each
*Mutation on a doubles skill roll.

So essentially this team only gets mutations on a double (a la Skaven). This could be very limiting if the player doesn't get a double for the first 10 skill up. essentially it would be a bashing team with ok-ish AV, and a complete lack of essential skills. By the time you Beef up your gors (Block/Guard) and took sure hands on a centigor your team would be developing slower than the opposition.

To improve the team I would leave the Gors as classic Beastmen and allow mutation on a single roll. Essentially this would bring the lucky teams (rolling double early) at the same level as the unlucky ones, and make the team more consistent.

Code: Select all

Qty	Title	Cost	MA	ST	AG	AV	Skills	Talent
0-16	Marauders	50,000	6	3	3	8	None	GSM
0-4 	Chaos Warriors	100,000	5	4	3	9	None	GSM
0-1 	Chaos Troll 	110,000	4	5	1	9	Regenerate, Mighty Blow, Throw Team Mate, Loner, Really Stupid, Always Hungry	SM*
0-1 	Chaos Ogre	140,000	5	5	2	9	Thick Skull, Mighty Blow, Throw Team Mate, Loner, Bonehead	SM*
Re-roll counter: 60,000 gold pieces each. 
*Chaos Troll, Chaos Ogre may only take a mutation on a doubles skill roll.

As mentioned you now have 6 high ST players and not much weakness in your team.
Your marauders have the same statline as the beastmen (minus horn) and they are 10k cheaper! The reason why they are so cheap in the chaos pact team is because the team doesn't have 4x ST4/AV9 monsters. I noticed you dropped the Passing skill but I still feel like it's an uber team, with quick access to extra arm and strong arm.

Since you had no problem with changing their skill access would you consider making them AV7 and give them back the passing skills? It would mean a higher turnover for these guys but keep the flexibility a chaos team should exhibit.
Drop the chaos Troll as well and I think it's spot on.
Essentially the Chaos Ogre replaces the old Minotaur and the marauders become weaker beastmen (AV7 and no horn) but access to all skills making this team a truly adaptable and chaotic experience.

Posted: **Mon Jul 19, 2010 10:21 pm**

Why are Bestigors agility 2?

Maybe Ungors should be ST2 and AG4 with dodge or catch?

Though doing so would take them out of the lineman position I guess. Maybe Gors are the linemen?

Posted: **Mon Jul 19, 2010 10:57 pm**

Maybe Pestigors could be more like Orc Blitzers with Horns...?

Posted: **Tue Jul 20, 2010 11:22 am**

Well

Interesting feedback

Thank you!

We will test some of your proposals (But like many people we lack time

)

Ungors: we don't want to change them: expendable linos / "you are weak? so you shall die!" (unknown Bestigor phylosophic

)

Gors: 0-4 / just like we want

Centigors: 0-2 interesting positional, but price not fixe. 90k? 100k?

Bestigors: 0-2 => ok / 6428 horns? 6438 horns? 5339 block, horns? we should try...
(We are not happy with the profile of Bestigor: "6428 horns" is not what a bestigor is... "6438 horns" is to strong... "6339 block, horns" is great (I like mattgslater's proposal: exactly what a Bestigor seems to be!) but perhaps weak for the team... In this case why not change Ungor to 6337 (GA M*)?

Minotaur: ok

Rerolls: 60k? 50k? not sure... 50k seems too cheap.

Nota:
1) One of my teamates thinks graeme27uk's idea is interesting. He said we could use Gors as linos, 0-4 ungors (6247 with a skill) as positional and 0-2 "6339 block, horns", but it will a be a very different team)

2) allow mutation on a single roll is an interesting option (but my teamates are afraid of "claws+mighty blow"... They have seen what a late chaos team could do in the video game

)

3 matchs done this week-end with the Beastmen (against Humans, Orcs and Pro Elfs).
Orcs have destroy the team. 1-0 (8-1- 3 deads)
Humans have tied 1-1 (3-1)
Pro Elfs have Tied 1-1 (0-3) but roll a lot of "one"

Posted: **Tue Jul 20, 2010 4:50 pm**

Here, I'll take a crack.

Beastmen
0-16 Gor 6/3/3/8 Horns GSM/AP 60k
0-4 Ungor 7/2/3/8 Dodge, Stunty AM/GPS 60k
0-2 Pestigor 6/3/3/9 Block, Horns GSM/AP 90k
0-2 Centigor 7/4/2/8 Bonehead, Horns, Frenzy, Sure Feet GSM/AP 110k

0-1 Chaos Minotaur (SM/GAP) 150k
60k TRR

Using the bit about Centigors showing up to the battle/match drunk all the time, that's Bonehead + Frenzy. This roster is potent at 1M, with 2 Pestigor, 2 Centigor, 0-2 Ungor, and 5-7 Gor, plus 3x TRR.

Warriors don't even need the Troll to be competitive, TBH. They're better than Chaos, just with the Ogre. Both Marauders and CWs are among the best values in all of BB.
0-16 Marauder 50k
0-4 Chaos Warrior 100k
0-1 Chaos Ogre (S/GAPM) 140k
70k TRR

Instead of the Ogre, a different option at 140k might be the Chaos Sorcerer. Say, 6/4/3/9 Disturbing Presence, Hypnotic Gaze GPM/AS? Either way, 4 Warriors and 7 Marauders leave room for 3RR and 40k bank, which is 40k better and 7x Horns worse than starting Chaos. Yeah, maybe it needs one more thing to buy. But I don't think it should be a Troll; that'd be 6x ST4+. There are only two teams able to do that, and the other players on those teams are all Stunty.

Posted: **Tue Jul 27, 2010 9:22 pm**

mattgslater wrote:Warriors don't even need the Troll to be competitive, TBH. They're better than Chaos, just with the Ogre. Both Marauders and CWs are among the best values in all of BB.
0-16 Marauder 50k
0-4 Chaos Warrior 100k
0-1 Chaos Ogre (S/GAPM) 140k
70k TRR

Instead of the Ogre, a different option at 140k might be the Chaos Sorcerer. Say, 6/4/3/9 Disturbing Presence, Hypnotic Gaze GPM/AS? Either way, 4 Warriors and 7 Marauders leave room for 3RR and 40k bank, which is 40k better and 7x Horns worse than starting Chaos. Yeah, maybe it needs one more thing to buy. But I don't think it should be a Troll; that'd be 6x ST4+. There are only two teams able to do that, and the other players on those teams are all Stunty.

So would swapping the Beastmen for Mauraders in the Chaos Team break the team or make it too good?
A Chaos Ogre always sounds good to me.

Posted: **Wed Jul 28, 2010 11:34 pm**

mattgslater wrote:Warriors don't even need the Troll to be competitive, TBH. They're better than Chaos, just with the Ogre. Both Marauders and CWs are among the best values in all of BB.
0-16 Marauder 50k
0-4 Chaos Warrior 100k
0-1 Chaos Ogre (S/GAPM) 140k
70k TRR

I prefer this roster : Matt is right, the team doesn't need a Troll. (and whatever makes the team diferent from Chaos Pact is welcome)

Also, several ideas to modify the Chaos roster were dropped, because the Team was too expensive. Since this roster is cheaper, maybe it's time to dig out some old ideas ?

For example, i remember this one was very interresting :
_ Juggernaut on Chaos Warrior for +10 k (Break Tackle was another option)

Posted: **Thu Jul 29, 2010 12:03 am**

I like the marauders + CW with juggernaut and the ogre with no simple access to claw.
It feels balanced and matches the current starting roster (4x 10k extra for the jug skill)

People rarely take jug on CW so it brings a nice twist, Break Tackle would be too good.

List of skills that could work:
Jug
Stand firm
Grab

Posted: **Thu Jul 29, 2010 5:33 am**

I like the chaos roster without the troll.
I also like the beastman roster - the original one looks pretty neat.
Centigor looks undercosted tho'.
Perhaps you should lose sure feet to represent their drunkenness.

Cheers
Martin

Posted: **Thu Jul 29, 2010 7:20 am**

mattgslater wrote:Here, I'll take a crack.

Beastmen
0-16 Gor 6/3/3/8 Horns GSM/AP 60k
0-4 Ungor 7/2/3/8 Dodge, Stunty AM/GPS 60k
0-2 Pestigor 6/3/3/9 Block, Horns GSM/AP 90k
0-2 Centigor 7/4/2/8 Bonehead, Horns, Frenzy, Sure Feet GSM/AP 110k
0-1 Chaos Minotaur (SM/GAP) 150k
60k TRR

Why not simply go for the Centigors:
0-2 Centigors 130,000 6 4 2 9 Sprint, Sure Feet, Thick Skull GS AP
I think it's been tried before and it works

Giving them horns makes some sense I agree but with ST4 they become 2x ST5 Blitzer which I think is a little overpowered for creatures with that speed and access to GSM.

With the Minotaur and Beastmen already in, essentially it's a swap of the 4 CW.
Having 2 Bull cent... sorry Centigors traded for the Chaos Warriors... I can see why it'd work. With the same stats as their chaos dwarf cousins, they would not get Mutation access and therefore no claws, and they loose Agility for a wee more speed (and thick skull)... it's speeding up the team but you loose the killers-who-can-play-the-ball... fair enough.

If you compare the team it's essentially chaos dwarfs (Bull centaurs + Mino) with the CD replaced by beastmen. For me that work, no need to had other ungors, or bestigors, it's fast team (MA 6 with the centigors speeding up with sure feet), with mutations and decent AV. It feels different from CD and Chaos, yet the positions have been priced before.

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