Talk Fantasy Football

The Current rule for penalties says

[If the match ends in a draw] then the match is decided by a penalty shoot-out; each coach rolls a D6, high score wins, re-roll ties! Each unused team re-roll adds 1 to the D6 Score.

I ran a KO Tournament at the weekend and the biggest feedback I got was that people really didnt like the penalties system that was being used to break ties.

So, ready for next years tournament I am looking for a new way to break ties that doesn't involve overtime (Which was the cause of another more minor dislike, over-running).

I don't want the system I implement to rely solely on dice as ultimately all those systems boil down to 1-3 player 1 goes through 4-6 player 2 goes through. I would like a system that either revolves around the team you have picked or your performance in the match.

Current ideas are...

Idea 1 wrote:

• When the final whistle goes at the end of the game, each coach must select the following from his current on-field pieces and reserves (not K.O'd, Injured or Sent off)
  
  5 models to act as Penalty Kickers
  1 model to act as a Keeper.
  
  Teams toss a coin to decide who goes first. That coach then selects a model to take the first kick and follows the following procedure:
• If that model has Bonehad, Bloodlust, Really Stupid, Wild Animal or Take Root then they roll a D6. On a 1 that model automatically misses the kick.
• Otherwise, the Kicking Coach rolls a D6 and adds the model's ST stat. (If the model has kick skill, they may roll 2D6 instead)
• The Keeper Coach then rolls a D6 and adds the Keeper model's AG stat. (Stunty offers a -1 and Titchy a -2 penalty to AG for Keeping. If the keeper has Kickoff-Return skill they may +1 to their result)
• If the Kicker's final total is equal to or greater than the Keeper's total, then a GOAL is scored.
  
  Rolls are now reversed and repeated after each kick until 5 penalty kicks have been taken by both sides. The team with the most GOALS is the winner.
  
  If it is still a draw after 5 Kicks then it is sudden death. Proceed though your kickers again (with a -1 penalty to kick for each previous kick a player has taken) until one person scores and the other misses.
  
  NOTE: The Keeper may not also be a Kicker. The Keeper will tend goal for ALL 5 penalties.

Idea 2 wrote:

• If the match ends in a draw and a result is required then follow the rules below.
  Face Offs happen in only the center area of the pitch, any player who enters a wide zone for any reason may not re-enter the center area for the remainder of the drive.
  If the ball enters a wide zone for any reason then the current drive is over.
  Players who enter the wide zones do not get attacked by the crowd.
  Players may choose to run in to the wide zones (to kill the ball during an opponents drive)
  If you try to block someone into the wide zones it must be treated as blocking someone off the pitch (they can only be blocked off the pitch if there is nowhere else to go)
  
  The Set-Up
  • Both Coaches select two players from their remaining players (Not KO or Injured).
    
    The teams who kicked-off first (In the first half) will be the team that starts initially with the ball.
    
    The two Defending players set up first and can be set up anywhere in their own half, there is no need to set up on the line of scrimmage.
    
    The team with the ball must set up with one player on the Kick-Off Sweet Spot (Cant think of a better name for this but Assume everyone knows where it is) This player is GIVEN the ball.
    the other player can be set up anywhere in the half, there is no need to set up on the line of scrimmage.
  The Drive
  • The Coach who has possession of the ball takes the first turn.
    
    Play continues as normal (with the above restrictions to pitch usage) until one team scores or the ball leaves the play area.
    
    Once the drive is complete then possession is given to the other team and the same players set up again for a second drive.
    If a player has been injured or disqualified then a new (unused) player may be brought on to replace him.
  Winning
  • If you score in your opponents drive then you automatically awarded the match.
    
    Once both teams have completed a drive then check the score. If one team is now winning then they are awarded the match. If not then two different players must be selected by both teams and the process repeated.
  Star Player Points
  • Star Player points are awarded as normal except for TD which do not score anything.

I didn't get to try out the penalties system, but I thought it seemed about as fair as any other system.

How about some kind of ice-hockey inspired set-up... 1 player starts with the ball at the halfway line, 1 defender on the goal-line, defender has to knock the ball-player down before a TD is scored. Then swap sides, repeat maybe 3 times each and see who is ahead?

Some Stats dragged together

Ogres - 5 x Ogre Kickers + 1 x Ogre Keeper

• Kicker - D6 + 5 (ST)
  Keeper - D6 + 2 (AG)

Flings - 2 x Trees + Deeproot + 2 Flings Kickers + 1 Fling Keeper

• Kicker - D6+6 / D6+7 / D6+2
  Keeper - D6+2 (Ag-1 for stunty)

Wood Elves - 1 x Tree + elves

• Kicker - D6+6 / D6+3
  Keeper - D6+4

Humans - 1 x Ogre Kicker + Humans

• Kickers - D6+5 / D6+3
  Keeper - D6+3

Orcs - 4 x Black Orcs + 1 x Troll Kickers / 1 x Orc Keeper

• Kicker - D6+4 (x4) / D6+5
  Keeper - D6+3

Lizards - Crox & Saurus Kicker / Skink Keeper

• Kicker - D6+5 / D6+4(x4)
  Keeper - D6+2 (Ag3-1 stunty)

Running some stats

https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?hl= ... s4wD#gid=1

Added that all Big Guys must make the relevant Take Root, Wild Animal, Really Stupid, Bonehead rolls before they can kick or block a kick.

This brings Ogres and Chaos Pact Back in Line and also reigns in Wood Elfs a little.

Added Idea 2 to first post.

Idea 2 wrote:

• If the match ends in a draw and a result is required then follow the rules below.
  Face Offs happen in only the center area of the pitch, any player who enters a wide zone for any reason may not re-enter the center area for the remainder of the drive.
  If the ball enters a wide zone for any reason then the current drive is over.
  Players who enter the wide zones do not get attacked by the crowd.
  Players may choose to run in to the wide zones (to kill the ball during an opponents drive)
  If you try to block someone into the wide zones it must be treated as blocking someone off the pitch (they can only be blocked off the pitch if there is nowhere else to go)
  
  The Set-Up
  • Both Coaches select two players from their remaining players (Not KO or Injured).
    
    The teams who kicked-off first (In the first half) will be the team that starts initially with the ball.
    
    The two Defending players set up first and can be set up anywhere in their own half, there is no need to set up on the line of scrimmage.
    
    The team with the ball must set up with one player on the Kick-Off Sweet Spot (Cant think of a better name for this but Assume everyone knows where it is) This player is GIVEN the ball.
    the other player can be set up anywhere in the half, there is no need to set up on the line of scrimmage.
  The Drive
  • The Coach who has possession of the ball takes the first turn.
    
    Play continues as normal (with the above restrictions to pitch usage) until one team scores or the ball leaves the play area.
    
    Once the drive is complete then possession is given to the other team and the same players set up again for a second drive.
    If a player has been injured or disqualified then a new (unused) player may be brought on to replace him.
  Winning
  • If you score in your opponents drive then you automatically awarded the match.
    
    Once both teams have completed a drive then check the score. If one team is now winning then they are awarded the match. If not then two different players must be selected by both teams and the process repeated.
  Star Player Points
  • Star Player points are awarded as normal except for TD which do not score anything.

I really like idea 2 in theory, accepting that some racial matchups will just be unfair - e.g. Strip Ball Wardancer vs any slowish team without Sure Hands. But I'm not sure it will be super quick if that is the intention. If you get a couple of ponderous coaches who keep scoring it could last as long as OT anyway.

Joemanji wrote:I really like idea 2 in theory, accepting that some racial matchups will just be unfair - e.g. Strip Ball Wardancer vs any slowish team without Sure Hands. But I'm not sure it will be super quick if that is the intention. If you get a couple of ponderous coaches who keep scoring it could last as long as OT anyway.

The hope is that with only 2 players on the pitch it leaves you limited choices, even for ponderous coaches.

I agree about the Strip Ball however most coaches seem to pickup Sure Hands at least somewhere so once teams become developed it shouldnt be so much of an issue.

During play testing the biggest issue was virgin Mummies/Tomb Guardians against Virgin anyone else. ST5 starting with the ball pretty much means every block against them is uphill and without and skills its tough going, although you do get 4-5 blocks on the mummy to take it down.

Just play a sudden death OT first. For some teams it is over in 2 turns and as our Nurgle Team wanted to beat up Wood Elves he flubbed the ball on the last turn when he could have won.

Smurf wrote:Just play a sudden death OT first. For some teams it is over in 2 turns and as our Nurgle Team wanted to beat up Wood Elves he flubbed the ball on the last turn when he could have won.

Sudden Death OT MASSIVELY favors the team who receives the ball so unfortunately its not even in the running.

harroguk wrote:

Smurf wrote:Just play a sudden death OT first. For some teams it is over in 2 turns and as our Nurgle Team wanted to beat up Wood Elves he flubbed the ball on the last turn when he could have won.

Sudden Death OT MASSIVELY favors the team who receives the ball so unfortunately its not even in the running.

Nuffle works in mysterious ways.

IMO not always, usually starting a half without TRRs, attrition could account against the offence.

My last OT was played against orcs and we failed to break each other possessions and it did come down to that but it went to 4-5 turns before it was scored. I've seen odd OT drives.

I think it's a way of saying you should have sorted this out in the allotted time - now quickly finish it.

Smurf wrote:My last OT was played against orcs and we failed to break each other possessions and it did come down to that but it went to 4-5 turns before it was scored.

Aye, I hear what you are saying. However, 4-5 turns is still 30-40 mins accounting for 4 minute turns which people can easilly go to in a close, high pressure tournament game overtime, just making sure they are picking the best moves.

This is simply too long to over run, especially if you are trying to squeeze 4 rounds into a single day.

Plasmoids overtime rule is pretty fair. As far as I remember it works in one of two ways.

1.
- toss a coin to decide who receives the ball.
- the receiving team sets up first the defending team sets up afterwards.
- the defending team gets a free turn
- after the free turn the receiving team may place the ball in any square
- the game starts and the receiving team has 5 turns to score. If this fails the defending team gets the score and wins

2.
- toss a coin to decide who receives the ball.
- the receiving team sets up first the defending team sets up afterwards.
- the defending team makes a kick-off without using kick-off table.
- the game starts and the receiving team has 5 turns to score. If this fails the defending team gets the score and wins.

Tourach wrote:Plasmoids overtime rule is pretty fair. As far as I remember it works in one of two ways.

1.
- toss a coin to decide who receives the ball.
- the receiving team sets up first the defending team sets up afterwards.
- the defending team gets a free turn
- after the free turn the receiving team may place the ball in any square
- the game starts and the receiving team has 5 turns to score. If this fails the defending team gets the score and wins

Again, despite really liking the rule itself it seems that it will just take too long to run through, 5 Turns * 4 minutes = 40 Minutes (4 mins for each player per turn)

Ideally I want something that can be resolved within 10 minutes.

Idea 1 (From post 1) resolves very quickly but doesn't really leave that much decision making.

Idea 2 (From post 1 and My current favorite) resolves in around 2-3 drives however with only 2 players on the pitch (Per team) at a time it leaves limited choices, although still choices, meaning that each turn progresses very quickly once you have decided on your play.

why not just use a countback system?

the team that wins will be the team that won by the greatest margin in the previous game

or maybe the team who scored more casualties in the game as they were more crowd pleasing

how about the team with more cheerleaders win as the crowd prefers that team?

I really dont think there is any advantage in creating some sort of 'mini game' to decide the result as long as all players are well aware of the criteria before hand they can plan ahead for it