Talk Fantasy Football

I remember back in the day where pro was a pretty useful skill, but in "modern" blood bowl it's all but useless, even Varag Ghoul-Chewer disowned it...

What is a general opinion of a house rule where if a pro roll fails, you can use a team reroll on the actual roll instead of having to re-roll for pro?

I don't think Pro is useless. It's just very situational. It's really good for a few kinds of players.

* +AG Linemen or Blitzers on non-Elf teams, who make a lot of easy rolls and often act late in the turn.
* Second doubles on a Loner big guy, basically a free RR.
* Players with skills that involve rolls without turnover chance, especially 2+ or 3+ rolls (Dauntless, Jump Up, Pass Block, Bloodlust).
* Players who tend to make a lot of die rolls all at once (Leaping Frenzy).
* Late skill on G-only player, as an alternative to cutting him.

Daht wrote:What is a general opinion of a house rule where if a pro roll fails, you can use a team reroll on the actual roll instead of having to re-roll for pro?

I think that makes it very good. I think many with G access would take it first or second skill. The utility players who can do a bit of everything its really handy for (e.g. most blitzers, elves).

Now its decent late pick on blockers and 2nd doubles for big guys.

Yeah thats what I'm looking at.. it becomes very good but not a MUST GET or overpowered skill.. the 2 teams I see benefiting the most from it are Vamps (who are still gonna not gonna be tier 1) and Slann, but the catchers/blitz on slan don't start with block or dodge and cost a ton so don't see it game breaking on that team either.

Elves could get good use out of it, but I'm thinking more blitzer types than linemen even, as linemen still have block/dodge/wrestle that would strongly compete with pro as a 1st/2nd skill.

Norse Linos would consider it as first skill
same for dwarfs, essentially this is doubleskull killer. You could neutralise the double skulls a lot easier: use pro and if it fails you still have the TRR.

You are taking risk management one step further and this is shoving the risk of failure to the bottom of the pile. Anyone with AG4 would consider it, 2+ dodge with only a 50% chance to "waste" the TRR, yes please.

Break Tackle Saurus would take it (helps for the block and the dodge)

actually anyone relying on TRR (leapers, blocker, dodger with no dodge access) would take it, first or second skill.

Well staring down the skill list for my WE team, I have 2 wardancers moving up to their 5th skills that would like to earn it (unless another Mighty Blow turns up), a couple of Catchers with leap that may want it and at least a Thrower who will pick it up as a 5th skill (useful for pick up ball, safe throw roll and if push comes to shove going for it). As soon as he hits the 5th skill there are 100 more balls to throw to get to the 6th... which I doubt he will manage to get over the course of 4-5 years of gaming.

I really don't think Pro is underpowered. It's a very versatile middle-of-the-pack skill. Buffing skills is a way to make useless skills usable. I don't think Pro is a useless skill at all; it's just fine for lots of players. Lots of rookies think it's better than it is, so they overprioritize it, and end up disappointed. This is not a problem: it doesn't mean the skill is useless, just that it's not a Block-style panacea. You don't need to buff Pro in any way whatsoever.

My (sadly departed) Block, Dodge, Mighty Blow, Piling On Werewolf didn't think Pro was underpowered...

I don't get Pro and why it is a good skill. It's a re-roll on a 4+ so 50% of the time. Usually if something fails its a turnover. Why not just use a TRR? Though I am guessing if you run out of TRR then a 50% chance of not suffering a turnover is better than nothing.

But is it really that great?

Not every failure is a turn over though. Also, you can use Pro on your opponents turn.

Sure, you'd use a TRR on anything that was about to cause a turnover, that's a no brainer. But Pro, aside from being useful if you are out of TRRs (or have used it already), is useful for all sorts of rolls that you wouldn't necessarily want to use a TRR on.

Some things that come to mind:
- Rerolling negatratits (Bloodlust especially)
- Rerolling catches if a ball bounces into a scrum or on a kickoff.
- Can you use it to re-roll an interception attempt? If so, sweet!
- Rerolling Foul Appearance, Tentacles or Shadowing checks
- Rerolling Jump Up or Dauntless
- Rerolling double push blocks to try and get a non-critical knockdown
- Rerolling on anyone that has Loner

Sure, it's not great on every single player out there, but there are a few players that can greatly benefit from it. And I'd guess that many players that hit their 4th+ skill could be candidates for Pro.

I kind of want a Jump up, Frenzy, Tackle, Mighty Blow, Pro blitzer now...

dsavillian wrote:Can you use it to re-roll an interception attempt?

Absolutely!

Pro isn't a great skill, but it's easy to underrate because it's easy to overrate.

I like Pre but its certainly not a 'must have' skill, good with dauntless as well

I had a Block Tackle Dauntless Pro skeleton which served me well

It is a skill that is sometimes ignored in favour of a TRR but it has its uses, its no Block but I think changing it might make it overpowered

Its an O.K skill that can be used on nearly everything, anyone that dont want to collect "catch" "pass" "dodge" and all the others can get a jack of all trades "pro" for the 50/50 re-roll. As others pointed out it can be used on bad rolls that are not important enough for the Re-roll counter or if you have already used one that turn. Wont get it myself as i see it as bland but then i know a few people who have taken it and used it well agenst me.

Better than the "leader" skill defnitly.

legowarrior wrote:Not every failure is a turn over though. Also, you can use Pro on your opponents turn.

never thought of that!! also its a 50/50 RR every turn for the player with the skill, got to be worth 20K late in a players development.....