Talk Fantasy Football

Attached are two versions of my CRP 2nd edition. I'm sure not all the rules will please everyone, and that will always be the case and has always been the case with every rules re-write, if you have feedback put it in my other thread please

This thread is for voting on which of my rules you like more and would prefer to playtest and if you want to leave comments then please put why you voted how you did

Thanks,

Version 1 - Basic changes
Keeps the same stat lines, brings back traits, SW rolls, LRB4 wizard

Version 2 - Advanced rules. (attached in the next post)
New stat lines, brings back traits, SW rolls, LRB4 wizard

P.S. Ignore the optional wizard rules part that was just for fun

these are the advanced rules

Advanced for me if only because of the new stat lines. I would love to test them (along side the simultaneous turn rules as well actually) even if I am not a big fan of bringing back traits. I think these rules would add some more subtlety to player styles and development whilst not adding in an overburdening amount of complexity.

mattski wrote:(along side the simultaneous turn rules as well actually)

Just pointing out my rules do not contain simultaneous turns, thats just mattskis dream

maybe one for the distant future Mattski

Sorry, should have made that clear!


To stick with the rules though I notice that you have tweaked the costing slightly on S and T as well. I really hope that you can get some testing done on this because I think that there is some really interesting stuff here. Like the change to D12 for Ag but was that just not as easy to do with Strength?

mattski wrote:Sorry, should have made that clear!


To stick with the rules though I notice that you have tweaked the costing slightly on S and T as well. I really hope that you can get some testing done on this because I think that there is some really interesting stuff here. Like the change to D12 for Ag but was that just not as easy to do with Strength?

No st works fine as it is at the moment, if I changed the St then 3 dice blocks wouldnt happen anywhere near as often for example if i changed the average St to 5 then you would need a st5 player blocking and 6 assists to get 3dice and so on. Also for me St is already up to 9 anyway as deathroller can reach St9 with two stat increases so no change was needed in that repsect.

Basic for me,

Why?

Because it's starting to get way too complex, even thou I can easily follow the logic of having specific stats for ballhandling and such...

thanks

keep reading them guys and then get voting everyone

I've got to say I like the basic ruleset. Brings back many things I missed from LRB4. Some roster tweaks are interesting. Stand firm is back in all its glory

The new skills are allright, but dirty tackle is... like a better prehensive tail right? I feel like it should be the other way around, but it is a trait so I get why it has to be powerful. But as an agility trait, I doubt I will take often over diving tackle. Could it be a Strength trait?
Taunt seems good to trap opponents : come into da cage little WD ^^


I especially like the WA system. Now the mino is no more a "differently stupid" player. If it were me I would even have made the result where he moves randomly more likely to happen
Hey! are they supposed to be wild or not? ^^

The mutation system is excellent fluffwise: the players just begs chaos gods for a gift... but we know for sure they have a deep sense of humour
not sure about the balance of it though, if you're lucky, it can be devastating. I like the new mutations too. These rule need to be tested!

About the advanced ruleset, it is a really big change from BB, and I have several problems with it, so honestly (or maybe I misunderstood some...):


1) Arrrgh! using a D12 you broke the sacred nuffle rule "any play shalt have a 16% failure and success rate" (well, excluding blocks, but you get my point). I can't get past this, because eventually players will become much too reliable. That means less tension, less luck involved, less BB. That is a no-no to me, goes too far
(well do whatever of course, don't want to sound extremist ) maybe 1and 2 are failures and 11 and 12 are successes?

2) Seperating Ag and Bh can be something to try, it does open the possibility to have players good at passing, but not at dodging. The throwers statlines are very interesting in that aspect. But isn't that overcomplicated? seeing that few players have significantly different Ag and Bh, can't some more specific skills achieve the same purpose?

3) being seperated in two, stat increase seem a little overpriced now, but that is a detail

4) On the other hand, I really don't like the idea of seperating ST in two stats. If I am correct, there are close to no players with ST>T right? I fell like this is used to make kind of 0.5 increments which could be a good idea, but I don't like it this way

So you can imagine where my vote goes
I will stick with the basic, that is the good amount of changes to me

the.tok wrote:I've got to say I like the basic ruleset. Brings back many things I missed from LRB4. Some roster tweaks are interesting. Stand firm is back in all its glory

The new skills are allright, but dirty tackle is... like a better prehensive tail right? I feel like it should be the other way around, but it is a trait so I get why it has to be powerful. But as an agility trait, I doubt I will take often over diving tackle. Could it be a Strength trait?
Taunt seems good to trap opponents : come into da cage little WD ^^

I especially like the WA system. Now the mino is no more a "differently stupid" player. If it were me I would even have made the result where he moves randomly more likely to happen
Hey! are they supposed to be wild or not? ^^

The mutation system is excellent fluffwise: the players just begs chaos gods for a gift... but we know for sure they have a deep sense of humour
not sure about the balance of it though, if you're lucky, it can be devastating. I like the new mutations too. These rule need to be tested!

Thanks for all the good feedback. I actually agree with you about the second one in a lot of ways, as I said in another thread - BB is a beer and pretzels game in essence and that shouldnt be changed, but some people prefer the complex version more so thought I would put both of them out there.

Dirty Tackle - you say you wouldnt take it over Diving tackle anyway, but wouldn't you want a player with both Diving Tackle and Dirty Tackle I would and that's really the point in it - to open up new skill combos and also for giving ag teams something to think about other than just take guard on every double.

There should be another option with no traits, but those 'good' skills simply cost more TV. Its actually hard to say which as both have interesting ideas and not so interesting ideas.

Intresting ideas Garion, although I think the advanced ruleset has no future, despite your obvious effort. The problem with CRP is not the game mechanics, which your advanced ruleset would quite radically change. Keep it D6!

The problem is the stacking of certain skills and the creation of what I call the 'rock/paper/scissors' effect. This really didn't exist in LRB4 other than claw/RSC, and the natural counter available to all against this was LRB4 DP.
I think making mutations random is a bad idea, making claw a trait would suffice. Bear in mind most other races have access to MB/PO either outright or as a double, which is how it should be.
I support bringing back the LRB4 ref.
Why change the kickoff table round? Don't get that.
The increased Spiralling expenses values would be good for FUMBBL, but I don't think the current SE values are too broken.
RSC stacking with claw/MB/PO? Really??? Wow! Sry, I think this is a VERY bad idea.
Not feeling phasing/soft landing/taunt/Dirty Tackle, I think the eisting skills are more than enough.

I'm in no way a would class authority on BB rules but I know what I thought worked and what I think doesn't currently. I would be happy to playtest any new ruleset in League, because right now it can't get a whole lot worse than CRP.

Regards, Calcium

Thanks for you input Calciumyour input is always valued... answers in red.

Calcium wrote:Intresting ideas Garion, although I think the advanced ruleset has no future, despite your obvious effort. The problem with CRP is not the game mechanics, which your advanced ruleset would quite radically change. Keep it D6!

The problem is the stacking of certain skills and the creation of what I call the 'rock/paper/scissors' effect. This really didn't exist in LRB4 other than claw/RSC, and the natural counter available to all against this was LRB4 DP.
I think making mutations random is a bad idea, making claw a trait would suffice. Bear in mind most other races have access to MB/PO either outright or as a double, which is how it should be.
Random mutations is something that splits opinion some people say its how it should always have been, other like to be able to pick, my first draft was Claw as a trait, the rest were normal, but i didnt like it. I think it fits the fluff, plus the odds of chaos getting either Claw or RSC are the same as getting a double on a skill roll, so the probaility is the same there and most of the mutations are a help anyway. I like the way the mutations you get would shape the way your team develops more.

I support bringing back the LRB4 ref. Yes!!!

Why change the kickoff table round? Don't get that. because get the ref used to be the least probable along with pitch invasion, however it got nerfed big time, so now the two kick off events that have the biggest effect on teh game are pitch invasion and Blitz, so I have moved them about so it is reflected in the Kick off table

The increased Spiralling expenses values would be good for FUMBBL, but I don't think the current SE values are too broken. there is an initial increase. but this way it makes it harder to stay above the break even point as the SE curve is steeper just a little change really, very minor and it also gies you a little extra room because of the bank rule and traits being re-introduced

RSC stacking with claw/MB/PO? Really??? Wow! Sry, I think this is a VERY bad idea.
Not feeling phasing/soft landing/taunt/Dirty Tackle, I think the eisting skills are more than enough. the odds of getting a player with those skills is incredibly long. that is a 1/6 a 1/12 and a 1/12 also they wouldnt last too long with lrb4 foulgin back anyway. , dirty tackle is actually an old skill, taunt i love, yeah soft landing im not to keep on but a lot like it, phasing is just leap for mutatant really, just provides new interesting development paths for me

I'm in no way a would class authority on BB rules but I know what I thought worked and what I think doesn't currently. I would be happy to playtest any new ruleset in League, because right now it can't get a whole lot worse than CRP.

Regards, Calcium

and thanks, this is my ultimate goal to get these sorted and get them playtested one day

Chris wrote:There should be another option with no traits, but those 'good' skills simply cost more TV. Its actually hard to say which as both have interesting ideas and not so interesting ideas.

That was considered and I did tier the skills in a thread when writting this, (link - viewtopic.php?f=16&t=33887&p=615544#p615544 near the bottom of the page) as you can see this has been going on for a while now but no traits adds more to the game than just more expensive skills, it forces players into development paths as well, it also makes picking skills a tougher decision and adds more to team individuality than tiered skills. Tiered skills also poses new problems with min maxing in perpetual leagues too.

garion wrote: Dirty Tackle - you say you wouldnt take it over Diving tackle anyway, but wouldn't you want a player with both Diving Tackle and Dirty Tackle I would and that's really the point in it - to open up new skill combos and also for giving ag teams something to think about other than just take guard on every double.

What about a shadowing + dirty Tackle + diving tackle + taunt player?
The ultimate annoying player, just put it right next an Ag4 ball carrier

the.tok wrote:

garion wrote: Dirty Tackle - you say you wouldnt take it over Diving tackle anyway, but wouldn't you want a player with both Diving Tackle and Dirty Tackle I would and that's really the point in it - to open up new skill combos and also for giving ag teams something to think about other than just take guard on every double.

What about a shadowing + dirty Tackle + diving tackle + taunt player?
The ultimate annoying player, just put it right next an Ag4 ball carrier

exactly, glad yo see the potential in new skill combinations

Something CRP is missing and has somewhat done away with.