New Werewolf player

[Acerak]

Ok. I'll start by saying that I made comments on the new Undead teams prior to release, but it's JJ's seal of approval on the test rules. (And remember, they're only test rules! Feedback is cool.)

I mention this only so you won't think I'm reacting personally when I make the following statements:

1. Blood Bowl is already based in part on WHFB, so I'm not sure why someone would say he wanted this line cut. If there was no WHFB, there'd be no BB; there'd be no Gutter Runners, no Troll Slayers, no current configuration of Undead on the same field of battle. Instead, there'd be Throwers, Blitzers, Runners, Catchers, and Linemen, and occasional cries of "Please import some WH positions into Blood Bowl!"

2. Assume for a moment that these rosters are balanced and playable. (Big assumption for some of you, but bear with me for a moment.) If these had been the starting rosters 8 years ago and they had suddenly been collapsed into a "unified Undead," I wouldn't be reading about how GW shouldn't split the teams up; I'd be reading about how they shouldn't unify them!

Just think about those last two points for a moment. Then take your new Undead toys out for a spin

(I know I will. And yes, Regenerate on the Golem would be better than Stand Firm.)

Cheers.

-Chet

[Lucien Swift]

i've been tossing around an idea for a new werewolf team for a few weeks, since all of this werewolf talk started...

anyway, here's the idea:

essence: werewolf team is basically a human team, you set them up before a drive, then roll a d6 for each once they are on the field and in place, if a 6 is rolled, they become werewolves...

now, were the new angle comes into play is that the wolf form is _STATISTICALLY STATIC_ meaning, it is _always 7/4/2/8 Mighty Blow, Break Tackle, Frenzy (i.e. the 2e conversion a la galak)... none of the human form's skills, attribute mods, etc carry over to the wolf form, and the wolf form never changes from game to game, player to player.... further, the player earns NO SPP for anything done in werewolf form...

7/4/2/8 Mighty Blow, Break Tackle, Frenzy is just good enough that even on a veteran team, it will be a welcome event to get a few wolf-form players, and odds are you'll only get 2-3 per drive, so they're not all that unbalanced on a rookie team either...

so, here's the roster:

0-12 were linemen 6/3/3/7 transformation 60k, G
0-4 were blitzers 7/3/3/7 block, transformation 100k GS
0-2 were throwers 6/3/3/7 sure hands, pass, transformation 80k GP
0-4 were catchers 8/2/3/7 dodge, catch, transformation 80k GA

rerolls: 60k

transformation: set up all players as normal prior to the kickoff, but before the kickoff table roll, roll a d6 for each player on the field, any who roll a '6' are replaced with a werewolf, who has the stats 7/4/2/8 Mighty Blow, Break Tackle, Frenzy. the player is returned to normal between drives. none of the player's skills or attribute modifiers are carried over to the wolf form. further, no spp's earned in wolf form count for the player.


better than a sharp stick in the eye... and a lot cleaner than the usual transforming team while maintaing the change-schtick over the wolf-only rosters.... golden mean and all that...

[Dangerous Dave]

Well its certainly different!

Losing any skills in Human form could be a reall penalty! If you are unlucky you could "lose" most of your runners / ball handlers to Wolves. Sure 7428 is good but if you need to score quickly that ag 2 could hurt! I guess you hope for a touch back!

So the team is the human team with reduced armour on all positions except catcher. I guess that's because they may change to Were form and can't get out of the armour / padding! (or at least can't afford to keep buying it

Personally, I think that there should be some "stooges" (I'm sure you can think of a better name) who do not have the transformation ability. Reduce the Were linos by 4 and have 4 normal linos (6338) at 50k. The 6337 linos are very expensive at 60k - all other 6337 linos have a great skill (Block or Dodge) and cost 50k. So I think that you need some other players to put on the line... who may last a bit longer!


Overall they may be fun. I certainly don't think that they are overpowered. As the human forms get more experience, the Were ability becomes negative. Perhaps they should get RSC in Were form when they become a Star Player. Or at least have some sort of progression. Also since you never know who is to change to Were form setting them up is something of a problem!


Dave

PS... that Phil guy is not sculpting some Weres for his Elf Ball game is he?

[Mestari]

If there was no WHFB, there'd be no BB; there'd be no Gutter Runners, no Troll Slayers, no current configuration of Undead on the same field of battle. Instead, there'd be Throwers, Blitzers, Runners, Catchers, and Linemen, and occasional cries of "Please import some WH positions into Blood Bowl!"

And the bad thing in this scenario is...?

I'd like that one...

About your point 2 - you're naturally right that if the non-unified teams were used as a starting point then people would oppose unifying them, but they weren't the starting point. The unified team was.

And to me it makes sense (as I mentioned in a previous post) that an undead head coach would gather all the dead things that he could fit into his gameplan, and have them imported if need be. So he'd get zombies, skelies,wights, mummies and the occasional graverobbing ghoul.

But as the buggers are here to stay as test versions at least, list me up on the 'Give Golems Regenerate'-group.

[Lucien Swift]

........Overall they may be fun. I certainly don't think that they are overpowered. As the human forms get more experience, the Were ability becomes negative. Perhaps they should get RSC in Were form when they become a Star Player. Or at least have some sort of progression. Also since you never know who is to change to Were form setting them up is something of a problem!

i initially had a different profile for the were form based on the experience level of the player.. in the end, i decided one form was just easier to keep track of.... too much bookkeeping....

yes, the risk of losing your playmakers is there, and you will not know what will happen on setup... but that's what makes these guys fun!

as for the stooges.... i just prefer a homogenized team...

PS... that Phil guy is not sculpting some Weres for his Elf Ball game is he?

nope, he was last seen working on gnolls!

[manusate]

1. Blood Bowl is already based in part on WHFB, so I'm not sure why someone would say he wanted this line cut. If there was no WHFB, there'd be no BB; there'd be no Gutter Runners, no Troll Slayers, no current configuration of Undead on the same field of battle. Instead, there'd be Throwers, Blitzers, Runners, Catchers, and Linemen, and occasional cries of "Please import some WH positions into Blood Bowl!"

Of course. As you said, Blood Bowl is based IN PART on WHFB. That doesn´t mean that BB has to mimic WHFB. The relationship between the two games is way looser. There is no need of the army-equals-team thing.

2. Assume for a moment that these rosters are balanced and playable. (Big assumption for some of you, but bear with me for a moment.) If these had been the starting rosters 8 years ago and they had suddenly been collapsed into a "unified Undead," I wouldn't be reading about how GW shouldn't split the teams up; I'd be reading about how they shouldn't unify them!

You´re right again. In that case you´d be reading how they shouldn´t unify. But that´s not the point. The point is why an existing team (popular, fully playtested and balanced, tons of minis already sold) is being so seriously modified. I don´t understad the reason. And looks like I´m not the only one.

I like new teams (and new minis) being added to the game. But existing teams being dropped, split or collapsed into one for reasons other than game balance is not a good thing. Am I wrong?


Manu

[Ghost of Pariah]

I have to agree here!
Give us new stuff! Don't reorder what we already have!
That just sucks!
I have an undead team that I ran for awhile and I consider myself an undead coach and I'm really sad to see my old boys just tossed out...especially for this riff raff.

[sean newboy]

Sounds alot like the "bring back the squats" people talking.

[DoubleSkulls]

Having had a quick look through both lists I can't see how they are "broken" for league play. Necro lists lack of apoth and lack of regen means its going to be hard to develop the team.

We are going to allow them in our friendly open season and coaches have expressed an interest in playing them. The proof will be in the pudding.

[Thadrin]

Broken? no.
Crap? yes.

[Trambi]

Just a remark, an apo could be only useful one time per match. With the cost of skeleton and zombie you could have a lot a players.

I agree with Acerak : BB world is WHB world.

The change to the vanilla teams are made (and should be made)according to the background and the rules. I don't think it's in order to bother the coachs !

[Thadrin]

BB's Old World and WFB's Old world I think are best seen as parallel universes, a'la the TV show "Sliders" if anyone remembers it.

Either that, or simply a version where poeple have realised that they can still go out an kill each other, but doing it right means that not only do they not have to pay, they'll make a profit!

(Still think the werewolf should be a Star for the Norse...)

[manusate]

Don´t say that BB world=WHFB world, Trambi, it´s not. All Acerack said is that BB is already based *in part* on WHFB. Blood Bowl´s fluff is (at best) a parody of Warhammer´s Old World.

BB is more like, ehem, Discworld football.

That´s why we open the season with the Patrician Invitational. And that´s why we have famous teams like the Ankh-Morpork Motherf*ck*rs (dark elves).


Manu

[Thadrin]

Don´t say that BB world=WHFB world, Trambi, it´s not. All Acerack said is that BB is already based *in part* on WHFB. Blood Bowl´s fluff is (at best) a parody of Warhammer´s Old World.

BB is more like, ehem, Discworld football.

That´s why we open the season with the Patrician Invitational. And that´s why we have famous teams like the Ankh-Morpork Motherf*ck*rs (dark elves).

A man with the right idea....
and any league with a team name like that is always going to be ok with me... Ankh Morpork M-Fers...I'd love to see the teambadge.

[Thadrin]

Masatari had a post here that I thought was such a great idea it warranted its own topic...so that under the "Advertising Blood Bowl" topic.
Feel free to continue moaning about Werewolves here...

Thads the Mod