October Review ... what's missing

[Colin]

I agree with Haar, change the fumble on passing rule. Range mods should only affect the accuracy of a pass not a greater chance of fumble.

[Haar]

Also, clear up the timing of how penalties are called on a Wild Animal coach. Specifically, can a team who has Gotten The Ref (kickoff table 3) move their Wild Animal whenever? What happens when there's a Wild Animal and a Goblin Fanatic on the pitch simultaneously?

[Balrog]

Things that are missing:
1. No range modifiers on fumbles.
2. You don't have to pick up or catch the ball if you don't want to (automatic scatter, no turnover).
3. Review fouling, the penalties aren't harsh enough as it is.

My thoughts:
-The apothecary rule as it stands is fine, no need to change it.
-Jump Up is fine, no need to change it.
-Free master chef for the halflings would turn them into an unstoppable juggernaut... Just kidding, it would be a great addition.
-Leader reroll rule is fine as it, no need to change it.
-Stunty players at +1 injury is a good thing, do not remove it.
-Big Guys costing double for stunty teams is silly, get rid of it (indeed, who plays with this rule anyways?)
-Keep kicking rules optional, no matter how balanced and fun they are, some players just aren't interested.
-Wild Animal is the only negative skill that may cause a turnover, it needs to be changed. Plus the current skill is nothing like the fluff.
-Mighty Blow should affect both Armour and Injury, it was fine before, it was only changed to keep in line with that awful 4th edition...
-Allow certain skills to be used more then once per turn, Break tackle is a good example.
-Allow Stunty as a Physical Mutation, but all players with the Stunty trait are at +1 to injury, have max AV 7, and have no access to general skills.
-Allow interesting skill combinations: Pass Block + Jump Up, Strong Arm + Dump Off, etc.

I hope that the BBRC will consider the voice of the community when making the changes.

-Dave

[Marcus]

2. You don't have to pick up or catch the ball if you don't want to (automatic scatter, no turnover).

Hear Hear!

You will have to kill me to avoid me houseruling this one. I'd love to see it gone for tournaments as well.

Marcus

[Haar]

2. You don't have to pick up or catch the ball if you don't want to (automatic scatter, no turnover).

What stops you from playing soccer then? Run your guys into the ball, have it scatter out from the tough situation, and then pick it up? No. You should be required to pick the ball up if you run into it.

[neoliminal]

2. You don't have to pick up or catch the ball if you don't want to (automatic scatter, no turnover).

What stops you from playing soccer then? Run your guys into the ball, have it scatter out from the tough situation, and then pick it up? No. You should be required to pick the ball up if you run into it.

What stop people playing soccer? Random luck.

I defy you to "kick" the ball anywhere you want. If it's really in a tough situation, you're more likely to give it to the other team from the scatter.

[Balrog]

What stops you from playing soccer then? Run your guys into the ball, have it scatter out from the tough situation, and then pick it up? No. You should be required to pick the ball up if you run into it.

Simple, you don't know where the ball will scatter, often it ends up on an opposing player who can catch it if he wants. Again, this rule has been played this way in many many leagues, and none of them ever found that it turns BB into soccer. It's not as if I'm suggesting something out of the blue; ever since BB 3rd edition this rule was in debate, and many leagues chose to go with the interpretation that the pick-up was optional. It's my opinion that the game is better with this rule, but I'll leave you to try it out for yourself.

-Balrog

[Haar]

I guess I don't necessarily know how it would work out, since my league never made it a house rule. What I envision is something like a scrum where there are a couple opposing TZs on the ball. Odds are you've got TZs on the opponents also (you will with the guy you use to kick the ball out no matter what). So if you manage to run into the ball, there's a chance (probably less than 50%, otherwise you wouldn't be able to get to the ball without leaping) that the ball will scatter onto an opponent. If it does, they've got to catch a bouncing ball, and they're in at least one TZ, more if you plan it right. So they miss, and the ball bounces again. If it goes well, stop moving that guy, if it doesn't, maybe dodge him or maybe use another guy. Doesn't hurt to try (except for tying up all your guys trying to get the ball). Or say it does bounce into the hands of a defender. IIRC, that's not a turnover (its a really rare situation, so I don't know, I could be wrong). You haven't used your blitz, knock that guy over. If you think it'll be a problem, declare the guy going into the ball as taking your blitz action, that will get him out of trouble in the end also, and maybe cut down on some dodges (followups don't dodge).

The key is that sending in a guy to bump the ball probably won't end your turn, whereas being forced to pick up the ball could easily cause a turnover.

Making it so you just have to block opponents into the ball makes it harder to do this, and harder to repeat (since you've only got one blitz).

I don't think this is a game breaker, but I do think it would be highly abusable.

[wesleytj]

I wonder why GW don´t use a self-designed race (snotlings)...

Because they suck SOO bad. They unbalance leagues by giving unscrupulous coaches easy wins, and ultra cheap casualties. I hated snotling teams when they were around.

[wesleytj]

I kinda like the jump up ideas (both of them), it would make it a useful trait. As it is now I'd never spend a doubles roll on it. Maybe if you're going to make jump up that useful though, perhaps you should revert back to original SF as well (allow dodgers to make it to square they were going to). Just a thought.

I also agree with getting rid of the "must try to catch ball" rule. Senseless addition, don't know why it was added before. Especially in conjunction with the new handoff rules it really screwed people sometimes. If a guy moved in to give an assist on the block and HAD to try to catch the ball, and then caught it, he was stuck with it whether it was a good thing or not, because nobody could take the handoff from them like they used to be able to. (BTW I liked that better the old way too)

Then some obvious ones like the Alchemist and such.

Some of the other stuff you said I don't like, but you already know that I'm sure. I'll indulge the rest of you all with examples tho.

>Add +1 to the injury roll for each Niggling Injury a player has and/or >Niggle rolls also at the end of each half or drive.

Bad idea. both parts, especially if done "by drive" as that will affect speed scoring teams more than the slower "score twice on a good day" teams.

>Use of an Apothecary does not leave a player Prone on the pitch but >instead puts him in Reserves

I see both sides of this one...my main problem is there are times when you would use an apoth on a stunned player for strategic reasons during a game, and this would eliminate all of that...aka you need that witch elf with jump up near the ball or you can't score kinda thing.

>Allow Throw Team-Mate to be aimed at a square with a player

OOOH you have to be VERY careful with this one. I've seen it played that way before and it can be VERY unbalancing. Make sure you make the goblin roll block dice. You can give him a strength mod for flying in the air (maybe even let them have dauntless trait while airborne) but make sure you make them roll. And make sure the gobbo has to roll arm/inj, too, not just the guy he hits. It should be mainly for fluff and not a real viable way to play defense.

>Readdress aging. After a very serious review with Chet and JKL of top >TR team under the LRB rules ... it looks like the aging rules are working

Since we don't see eye to eye on "working" we won't agree here. I think the table should be less nigglers and more downgrades (my table is elsewhere), and that players should get their first 2 skills without rolling, then start at 5+.

>Add the experimental kicking rules to the game.

I think they should remain optional. I'm glad the people that like them like them, and I've played them and they're ok...but they change the game too much to be forced on people. I think the way they are now as optional is the way they should be. The rules work, and people who want to can, but nobody feels forced to.

>Bring back the Snotling team with the fixed Titchy rules

See earlier comment...snotling teams are not good for league balance. too many easy casualties and wins for unscrupulous coaches. Add them if you want but I certainly won't allow em in my league. Somebody might play em.


Then you're leaving off (probably on purpose):

-adjust winnings table upwards a bit
-return spps for fouling cas

you don't have to do it obviously, but I wish you'd at least discuss it in the committee.

[wesleytj]

I don't think this is a game breaker, but I do think it would be highly abusable.

You think that's bad...our league used to rule before it was clarified that someone could just stand on the ball (no scatter, no forced pickup attempt). Talk about abuse. We had an undead coach who would stand over the ball with his Blk/SF/DT mummy and use the rest of his team to pound you for 6 or 7 turns, then score at the last second.

OUCH!

[Mestari]

-I don't see the point of the free master chef - just make the price lower

"To Give Something To The ST Teams":
-Stand Firm to what it used to be
-Break Tackle usable many times per turn

These two because they give some mobility back to the strength teams.

I agree with Balrog to
-Allow interesting skill combinations: Pass Block + Jump Up, Strong Arm + Dump Off, etc.

Agree with JKL: Can't see how ball-kicking while it's on the ground could be abused so much. Allow it. Gives something to the strength teams as elves and others like that usually can afford to pick up in a few tacklezones.

[Thadrin]

I don't see the point of the free master chef - just make the price lower

No, I love the idea. A bit of a boost for those hapless Halflings, fits fluff (wouldn't ALL teams have one on staff?) etc.

-Stand Firm to what it used to be

No. It breaks the skill: "I need one dodge to put a tackle zone on him. No problem, Despite the fact that I am dodging into 7 tackle zones I have stand firm and so don't even need to think about rolling."

-Break Tackle usable many times per turn

You can't use dodge more than once a turn so why allow BT more than once a turn?

-Allow interesting skill combinations: Pass Block + Jump Up

Doesn't bother me either way as I'll never get a player with Jump up as things stand.

, Strong Arm + Dump Off, etc.

THE SKILLS AREN'T COMPATIBLE. You don't have the option of anything longer than a quick pass with dump off, as is right and proper.
You can't reduce the range of a Quick pass.

[Mestari]

Thadrin: On SF and BT. I'm aware of the implications of the changes I'm suggesting. And I feel they're what we need - we need more maneuverability for the ST teams, and this is exactly what these changes (or rather 'what this returning to the old rules') causes. You can't compare Dodge to BT as BT only changes what attribute you use for the dodge roll - dodge gives a reroll for the dodge itself.

SA and DOff : Giving the option of combining these, what do you think would be the major problem? Misuse? I think this would be a nice way of improving a less used skill, DOff. This wouldn't become the number 1 combo around anyhow, so I think this'd be fine.

[GalakStarscraper]

I wonder why GW don´t use a self-designed race (snotlings)...

Because they suck SOO bad. They unbalance leagues by giving unscrupulous coaches easy wins, and ultra cheap casualties. I hated snotling teams when they were around.

Funny ... the reason that they were removed was because they were too good ... won a major tournament right before being removed.

The experimental rules for them balanced them out very nicely and we've been quite happy with them.

Galak