Possible streamlining of skill roll.

Toby · Post by **Toby** » Mon Jul 15, 2002 11:24 pm

I would prefer to give coaches more control over their players developement since i dont see the fun in raising like 17 Human Blitzers in hope that eventually one would be Strength 4 on a 66.

So i would suggest 9 10 11 12 = Increase A statistic of your choice.

I mean, aging can easiliy screw up a Player Developement Plan. I would favor to give Coaches the Ability to "repair" the Damage done by aging if necesarry to some degree.

Traits on a Double is cool it represents the rareness of the ability.

Acerak · Post by **Acerak** » Tue Jul 16, 2002 2:46 am

Leaving aging out of it - because, really, there's no pressing need to combine these rolls in one table when we have two tables that work well - I think the chart John proposed is pretty good. Especially if you want to increase traits by some small degree.

(Waiting while we prompt Dave to write that he doesn't want more traits in the game.)

It's about as simple as "traits on a 7," with an added benefit (IMO) that coaches make a number of different choices based on the skill roll:

* Regular skill or any skill?
* Regular skill or regular trait?
* Stat increase or regular skill?

People have lobbied for that last one already, so most of John's chart isn't any different from Teemu's suggestion except where, exactly, you should place the exceptional rolls.

I also like removing the interference created by a roll of 12. I could probably amputate both hands and still have enough fingers left to count the number of times a coach has passed up ST+1 for one of his players.

Of course, this would increase the number of exceptional skills in the game, but that might help loosen some of the limitations established when a number of skills became traits. I mean, I'm not sure how Elves survive without a couple players with Dauntless, but I don't know how they get those players these days

Anyway, just some musings.

-Chet

Acerak · Post by **Acerak** » Tue Jul 16, 2002 2:49 am

Pick any stat increase on a roll of 9-12? I believe Major League Baseball has allowed something like this for a long time, and now they're awash in ST5 shortstops who hit .320 with 40 home runs a year.

-Chet

Lucien Swift · Post by **Lucien Swift** » Tue Jul 16, 2002 3:04 am

but there's no steroids involved... nope, not a one...

Ghost of Pariah · Post by **Ghost of Pariah** » Tue Jul 16, 2002 4:20 am

I really don't see what's wrong with it right now? It ain't broke.
What's so magical about 7 anyway?

Norse · Post by **Norse** » Tue Jul 16, 2002 6:29 am

7 is the magic dice number.. it comes up more often on 2D6 than any other number..

I mean, to roll a 2 you need snake eyes, right?

to roll a 7, you need 1 + 6 (or 6 + 1) or 2 + 5 (or 5 + 2) etc etc etc

staistically, there is more chance to roll 7 than anything else! maybe would make traits too common in that case....

I would still like to see a +1 AV on there somewhere though.. it's perfectly possible to lose AV on injuries or ageing, and as there are no more magic helmets, we need a way to toughen up our players if we get lucky on the dice... C'mon BBRC, this is my second most important request for the October Rules Review..

The first one is, quite obviously, BRING BACK SNOTLINGS!!!!

Mestari · Post by **Mestari** » Tue Jul 16, 2002 7:04 am

neoliminal wrote: Skill Roll:

2-6 = Normal Skill Access
7 = Any Skill.
8-9 = Normal Trait Access or Normal Skill Access
10 = MA increase or Normal Skill Access
11 = AG increase or Normal Skill Access
12 = ST increase or Normal Skill Access

I like this one. Or add '7's to the existing table. This one seems simpler and there are less things for newbies to remember.

For those who are afraid of increased number of traits, please do remember that the original situation was that traits were normal skills, available to any player on doubles. Now when they can only be taken by players with access the category, the main inbalance has already been taken away, and the access is still limited to only results 8 and 9.

+1AV? I don't think that it should be there.
If everyone wants it, then it should not be a frequent event, definitely not 3/36 like MA. Maybe add so that skill roll of '2' is +1AV or a normal skill. Or it could be Magic Helmet + Normal skill... Or so that '12' is +1ST/+1AV/Normal skill.

Aging. It should NOT be merged into this roll. Why?
1) Because aging should not depend on what skill advance you get
2) Because some leagues and tournaments don't want to use aging.

Norse · Post by **Norse** » Tue Jul 16, 2002 7:26 am

Why shouldn't AV also be a factor? It is a variable down the way dependant on injury and ageing, as are MA, ST and AG, yet they CAN also go up!

I guess it's not just a question of balance for me, it's also realism.. If you've ever seen some of the horrendous injuries rugby players get during a game without even noticing, you'll understand what I mean... I knew a martial artist once whose nose had been broken 17 times, and all the nerves were destroyed, so he felt no pain when punched in the face..

He wasn't a nice guy, so I'm not surprised he'd been hit so often...

All I think is for game balance and realism, AV should be in there somewhere.. maybe on a 12 you can chose +1 ST or +1 AV as they are both very potent bonuses to pick up...

christer · Post by **christer** » Tue Jul 16, 2002 7:58 am

Regarding ST/AV on the skill roll...

I'm of the opinion that ST should be taken out from the advancement roll entirely. Personally, I find extra strength affecting the balance in a highly boring way. I've been in the situation where coaches managed to roll three +ST rolls within a rather short period of time. The resulting teams (orc and chaos) became highly boring to play against. You basically spent all your time trying to hide...

I mean sure, +ST on halflings or gobbos doesn't really matter, but on any of the "real" teams, it rather destroys the playability of the teams.

In my local group, we've exchanged the +ST to +AV because of this.. There are better ways to modify the table though, for example:

2-9 Skill (or whatever alternative trait system you want to use)
10 AV
11 AG
12 MV

Or perhaps
2-9 Skill
10 AV
11 MV
12 AG

The latter would probably be better under the current ruleset, as that would prevent "forced AV" on ag1 players like mummies or sauruses.

To summarize, I don't like the +ST roll as it affects team balance too much.

-- Christer

Furelli · Post by **Furelli** » Tue Jul 16, 2002 8:11 am

If you want a nice spread how about

2: AV
3: MV
4-6: Skill
7: Trait or Skill (effective current double roll)
8-10: Skill
11: AG
12: ST

Furelli.

P.S. Just my 2p worth

Toby · Post by **Toby** » Tue Jul 16, 2002 8:20 am

First of all one needs to be aware of this:

02=1/36
03=2/36
04=3/36
05=4/36
06=5/36
07=6/36
08=5/36
09=4/36
10=3/36
11=2/36
12=1/36

07=6/36=1/6 Pick Any Skill or Trait, get a Physical, (lose Racial)
Exactly the same Propability as a Double under the current System

10,11,12=6/36=1/6 Pick any Statistics Increase
Again the same Propability as the current System, but Any Statistic

5,6,8,9=18/36=3/6 Pick an availiable Skill
That means that this is the normal thing that happens.

So there are 6/36=1/6 left for other results...

2,3,4=6/36=1/6 Pick an availiable Skill or Special (Secret Weapon, Hypnotic Gaze, Throw Team Mate)
This would require a new ruleset for Specials like Secret Weapons, just an idea.

Norse · Post by **Norse** » Tue Jul 16, 2002 8:31 am

That's a very good point Toby..

swapping doubles for a roll of 7 would make NO DIFFERENCE to the number of traits currently obtained..

In which case..

1-6 Standard Skill
7 Standard Trait or Any Skill
8-9 Standard Skill
10 +1 MA
11 +1 AG
12 +1 AV or +1 ST

Pantera · Post by **Pantera** » Tue Jul 16, 2002 8:33 am

Lucien Swift wrote:bloodbowl will be supported by avalon hill?

Alas, the once great Avalon Hill is now completely gone. After many tours and revival Hasbro finally decided to lay off the few involved and include the boardgame line into Wizards. Which hasn't said anything at all about AH games. Rob who was responsible for the revival and release of some good games with lots of plastic figures, went back to Milton Bradley.

Back to the topic.

I like the idea of changing the skill roll table. A few more traits is nice, and the double roll going is also good. Because I NEVER roll doubles it will be very good for me (egoistical thinking here)

Also being able to choose a normal skill on 10-12 is good. But maybe thats how most people run it anyway?

Furelli · Post by **Furelli** » Tue Jul 16, 2002 8:34 am

Norse wrote: 11 +2 AG

I'm hoping this is a mis-type. Although i'm sure my Saurus wouldn't complain of an AG increase now.

Furelli.

Post by **voyagers_uk** » Tue Jul 16, 2002 8:35 am

I agree with my northern chum, the 12 result should allow the choice of AV and ST.

But I would go futher and say that we should still keep the choice of a stat increase or a standard skill in there to avoid +1AG on Mummies etc.

he probably just forgot that on his post anyway.....

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Possible streamlining of skill roll.

Re: Possible streamlining of skill roll.

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