Spike! Journal

[peo2223]

Surely really stupid is the worst trait for big guys? 4+ to do anything without a buddy next to you and lose tackle zone when stupid. At least with wild animal you keep your tackle zone.

Joys of big guy management...chaos pact anyone?

[Loki]

I don't think it has to. Between specifiying 'Nurgle team' and 'open roster slot', it's pretty clear that any team other than Nurgle cannot benefit. If your team roster does not include Rotters then you cannot have an open slot to take one.

I've always interpreted anything about open roster slots to mean <16 players. It's an issue I'm having with an Undead team on FUMBBL recently 'cos I keep 'recruiting' Zombies faster than I can fit them into my squad!

[garion]

Surely really stupid is the worst trait for big guys? 4+ to do anything without a buddy next to you and lose tackle zone when stupid. At least with wild animal you keep your tackle zone.

Joys of big guy management...chaos pact anyone?

No, deffo not, RS is easy to manage. You should always have a players or 2
on hand to help out your big guy otherwise its very easy to put them on their backside.

are you jordinoboy ? - http://fumbbl.com/p/about?c=jordinoboy if so hello.

[fromherashes]

Surely really stupid is the worst trait for big guys? 4+ to do anything without a buddy next to you and lose tackle zone when stupid. At least with wild animal you keep your tackle zone.

Joys of big guy management...chaos pact anyone?

No, deffo not, RS is easy to manage. You should always have a players or 2
on hand to help out your big guy otherwise its very easy to put them on their backside.

are you jordinoboy ? - http://fumbbl.com/p/about?c=jordinoboy if so hello.

So you’ll quite happily have 2/3 players out of position with a 1 in 6 chance of losing tackle zones but not one...

You’re wrong mate, so wrong.

Really Stupid is by far the worst.

[garion]

Why would the RS player be out of position and if I had a RS player out of position why would I support them with 2 players? You're going far in to a silly theory bowl rabbit hole here.
I will just reiterate though that in lrb4 minos didn't get used even when cheaper than ogres. And trolls were always picked over them too.
But this isn't the place for this discussion and it can go elsewhere if people want to open a thread discussing the merits of keeping your tacklezone over being able to move reliably. There is probably already one out there tbh.

[fromherashes]

Why would the RS player be out of position and if I had a RS player out of position why would I support them with 2 players? You're going far in to a silly theory bowl rabbit hole here.
I will just reiterate though that in lrb4 minos didn't get used even when cheaper than ogres. And trolls were always picked over them too.
But this isn't the place for this discussion and it can go elsewhere if people want to open a thread discussing the merits of keeping your tacklezone over being able to move reliably. There is probably already one out there tbh.

You literally just said you should always have 1 or 2 players next to your RS player. You know what happens when you do that, you roll a 1.

RS is worse than Wild Animal.

[garion]

Sigh.... This place....

I said you should always support your big guy with 1 or 2 players. Not specific to RS Big guys. You need to keep players along side them other wise any big guy is easily knocked down. Obviously there are times you'd leave them isolated. But this shouldnt really need to be spelled out. But as I've said this discussion isn't for this thread. Later on I will write in a tactics thread why I think WA is the worst of RS WA and BH. And for me it isn't even close.

But back to the original point that I made- minotaur used to be 110k and they were almost never taken in lrb4. I understand why big guys got a price increase in lrb5 - CRP. It was so they were not an automatic selection choice which they had become in lrb4 . Instead galak et al wanted it to be a tactical consideration. Which isn't a bad approach. However the price increase were a little ott. Jumping minos, the almost never used big guy from 110 - 150 was in particular too much.

We played crp for 6 years or something like that. And it was pretty apparent to all of us old heads that played that edition till its end that minotaurs were huge bloat in a rule set that promoted tv efficiency.

Knocking 10k off their price would make them a little more palatable. This was a change that the vast majority of people I know wanted from the next edition. Just like goblin trolls losing loner - it's just a small change that would have made the rule set tighter and slightly better.

[Christy42]

Any plans for Spike to be available on dugout or any manner I can buy it via phone credit? I just bought the rules/deathzone in this manner as it works out cheaper for me.

[JT-Y]

Interesting as this undoubtedly is, the Minotaur hasn't become cheaper and won't be doing any time soon.

Any plans for Spike to be available on dugout or any manner I can buy it via phone credit?

I have no idea, stuff like that is the realm of marketing and logistics, but I can ask.

[Christy42]

Interesting as this undoubtedly is, the Minotaur hasn't become cheaper and won't be doing any time soon.

Any plans for Spike to be available on dugout or any manner I can buy it via phone credit?

I have no idea, stuff like that is the realm of marketing and logistics, but I can ask.

Please do! I have realised I am paying x a month to get a months worth of free phone usage but my sky high rates mean I don't get much use out of it after my month is up. It would be great to get some nice goodies for it as well.

[garion]

Interesting as this undoubtedly is, the Minotaur hasn't become cheaper and won't be doing any time soon.

That's a shame. Is there any reason why minor changes/tweaks to rosters are largely getting ignored for this edition? Especially ones that were so obvious, minor, and so frequently requested? We got a human Catcher price change which was largely irrelevant as humans perform brilliantly at low TV already and this change has no real impact at high tv. Whereas other changes do not appear as though they are getting considered?

Loner being removed from Trolls in Goblin Teams
Decay removed from Tomb Guardians
-10k off Mino
M access on single rolls for BoN
fixing ogres

Obviously we do not want big sweeping changes to any of the rosters as they are largely very well designed (apart from Ogres). It just feels like a real missed opportunity to and now we will be stuck for a number of years again without these rosters moving forward and becoming tighter more well designed.

[Purplegoo]

Just a note on the RS v WA thing (sorry, JT-Y!) - unless I'm much mistaken, Garion, you generally operate in an online, perpetual league environment, right? In my days of FUMBBLing pretty exclusively, I would have been fully behind your argument. You should be able to build a more TV efficient blitzer than a WA, moving the thing is a pain, it's too expensive and I like a RS roadblock far more. Tick, tick, tick; never hire that guy, even at LRB4 prices.

Sometimes we (myself included!) forget the huge breadth of BB environments out there in the offline world. In an eight team, seven game league season where the teams reset after game 7, it's actually probably good Blood Bowl to invest in a WA and rely on him to whack stuff. Not comfortable tactics for us, maybe, but probably sound thinking. You'd absolutely try and cram the WAs into a standard sort of a NAF ruleset, probably only excluding the Chaos Dwarf Mino, and even that is an unsolved debate.

Are they 'too expensive'? Perhaps. But I think there are formats where Wild Animals are desirable and tactically sound investments, preferable to a RS equivalent. At least, that's what I tell myself when I screw my eyes shut, cross my fingers and say 'Blitz with the Mino'.

On the journal - I've only had chance to thumb through it so far rather than take it in at my leisure, but for £8, I'm pretty impressed. Good show.

[garion]

Just a note on the RS v WA thing (sorry, JT-Y!) - unless I'm much mistaken, Garion, you generally operate in an online, perpetual league environment, right? In my days of FUMBBLing pretty exclusively, I would have been fully behind your argument. You should be able to build a more TV efficient blitzer than a WA, moving the thing is a pain, it's too expensive and I like a RS roadblock far more. Tick, tick, tick; never hire that guy, even at LRB4 prices.

Sometimes we (myself included!) forget the huge breadth of BB environments out there in the offline world. In an eight team, seven game league season where the teams reset after game 7, it's actually probably good Blood Bowl to invest in a WA and rely on him to whack stuff. Not comfortable tactics for us, maybe, but probably sound thinking. You'd absolutely try and cram the WAs into a standard sort of a NAF ruleset, probably only excluding the Chaos Dwarf Mino, and even that is an unsolved debate.

Are they 'too expensive'? Perhaps. But I think there are formats where Wild Animals are desirable and tactically sound investments, preferable to a RS equivalent. At least, that's what I tell myself when I screw my eyes shut, cross my fingers and say 'Blitz with the Mino'.

On the journal - I've only had chance to thumb through it so far rather than take it in at my leisure, but for £8, I'm pretty impressed. Good show.

agree with everything you say Purplegoo, it was just a small note on my review of the book on the previous page that has been picked up by someone. As seems to happen online, ignoring the rest of my post.

All I am saying is currently he is a little over priced 10k reduction would be a truer value and hardly game breaking. It would have no impact on the resurrection tournament scene or 7 game TT seasons, but might make them slightly more attractive to people that play longer leagues. For me the bottom line is they certainly aren't better than ogres yet they cost more.
The rule change guys have also reduced Human catchers by 10k for some reason..... why not make the tiny tweaks here and there just to make things better in all environments. -10k to their price would possibly make them a tiny bit more enticing for people. But never mind....

there's your thread @ fromherashes -
viewtopic.php?f=25&t=45065&p=797802#p797802

[garion]

A good solid magazine.

Pros -
*Previously useless stars have been given skills that make them worthwhile. This is a change I made post CRP as well as too many of the stars were utterly pointless.
*Chaos background art etc... is all great.
*Wizards changes are good. getting rid of lightning was a simple solution to how OP it was.
*Zap being brought back is amazing, I'm so happy about this.

Cons -
*Don't like race specific wizards included in the core rules, they should be clearly marked as optional rules like stadium expansion etc... is. Just like Character inducements should have been, another miss step.
*I do not want this edition rule set (which is unfortunately being drip fed) to end up lopsided, with some races having race specific wizards or full star player lists and others without. I also worry race specific wizards will cause further unbalancing of things further down the line, even if restraint has been shown this time.
*Although I love Zap! I do not understand why it is measured against a players strength? What is the reason for this. A 1d6 4+ roll would have been preferable as it used to be. There is no need to give bash an advantage or stunty teams a disadvantage. Also you have removed the Zap scatter in the event of a miss, which is a real shame. This was soo much fun, and anyone that ever uses a zap is using the sub optimal fluff spell anyway, so why detract from its hilarity?
*Another missed opportunity to fix something that was clearly off to any long time CRP players - the cost of Wild Animals being over priced in the player costing formula. WA is much worse than Bone Head and a little worse than Really Stupid, but WA's are over costed. knocking 10k off the Minotaur would make them a more realistic consideration. Currently they are just too much for an AV8 player. Not a huge deal but just something sadly missed again.

overall though great stuff.

@ the people developing the new rule set. as I said above ^ what was the thinking behind making Zap a St roll rather than a 4+?

[peo2223]

Because trolls were already ugly enough?