Talk Fantasy Football

Hey, I'm planning on inviting over 3 friends and teach them this wonderful game on a one off night. Thing is, as we all know, the rules aren't as streamlined and easy to pick up as many boardgames are these days. So this is what I have planned to do:
1)Talk about the basics rules of the game.
2) have premade rosters for each of the teams I have available
3) omit/glaze over various things I don't feel they need to learn the first time around.

This is the order and amount I think I'll teach:

Blood bowl:
-Is a game of 2 coaches, controlling their 11 players over 2X8 turns to score as many TDs as possible.

-each turn you activate as many of the 11 players as you want, or until a TO happens. (Explain TO's)

-talk MA-ST-AG-AV and tacklezones. Use human lineman as an example, explain skills later.

- talk about the 6 actions ( 2 repetitive, 4 one offs) declaring them, and flipping minis
- MOVE, ballpickup+TO, GFI+TO, Dodges+TO
- BLOCK, st comparison, sides of the die + TO, ball scatter, crowdsurfs. Assists.
- BLITZ: -"-
- PASS, interception, modifiers, catching. TO's
- HANDOFF, TO
- FOULING, "cheaper fouls expensive". TO

-Talk team rerolls. Talk skill rerolls.

-UP UNTIL THIS POINT TAKES ABOUT 30 MINS.

-Talk team comp + positionals. Give brief overview of teams at hand (humans, orcs, norse, dwarves, high elves, skaven and halflings)

GENERAL PLAYSTYLES: Bash vs dash

________________________________________________________________END OF NEED TO KNOW ITEMS__________________________________________________________________________________________________________

PLAY TERMS: I'd like to briefly touch on these three items
Cage (tight/loose)
Screen
Marking

SETUP: I figured It'd be easier if we all just set up and kicked off together. I don't feel that there's need for weather, but I'dlike to keep the kickoff event as I feel it is very BB to keep it in, and I have spent money on FF in team creation.
-Fans
-no weather
-coinflip
-setup
-kickoff

-TIPS: I'm on the fence whether to say this to any of them or let them figure out by themselves.
-roll as few dice as possible
-safe-> medium safe-> unsafe -priorities.
-sidelines

I will be playing my halfling team, to even things out.

-What do you guys think? Would you cut off more fat? I did toy with the idea that we could play with linemen only, but dwarves and norse would be at an def advantage, and the guys do know how to play pretty advanced boardgames and RPGs, so I think they'll like having positionals.

If they were so inclined, they could watch this before coming over? Half-hour intro vid covering all the basics: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DObbJOz9X0k

I know, it's the best way to do it and it saves time, but I had some very bad experiences with premade rosters.
The thing is, you know what you're doing with these rosters when making them, they are tuned to adapt to your style of playing this team.
But they who use the team have no clue about your intentions! Explain how and why the teams were created in that way!

Also, if you gloss over some of the final details, I'd leave fouling out of the first games.
When you learn how to play football, your coach is not gonnatell you how to kick opponents in the balls in the first lesson, is he?
We've played whole seasons without any foul happening.

Just my 2 cents...

Regash wrote:Also, if you gloss over some of the final details, I'd leave fouling out of the first games.
When you learn how to play football, your coach is not gonnatell you how to kick opponents in the balls in the first lesson, is he?
We've played whole seasons without any foul happening.

Oh, but this is BB... so ignore passing and teach fouling.

Madsherman wrote: -Talk team comp + positionals. Give brief overview of teams at hand (humans, orcs, norse, dwarves, high elves, skaven and halflings)

It all looks good to me.

My advice would be to empasize the fluff/sillyness. First thing I heard about BB was snotlings being thrown and possible dying when attempting to land. Sounds fun, right? The game shouldn`t be sold in as a type of fantasy Chess (even if many of us like to think of it like that). For newcomers the main obstacle is the horrific TOs and how badly the game/dice can screw you over. I think it is easier to learn to cope with that if they are sold on the fun/fluff of which BB has plenty

Thanks guys. Sann I thought about showing your vid, actually, but it is sooo hard to get them to do any homework before showing up. I'll def consider not talking about fouling. And I also considered giving each a random event card, to keep things on the lighter side. The teams i made are basically what I have minis for. So they look a lot like the beginner ones (orcs - humans with 2 throwers) that come with the standard game. I also made a big guy version of the teams that are eligible, but I think all the negatrait stuff might bite us in the ass.

-But yes, I'd like to keep it light and fun, and thats why I'm thinking of not talking about caging up and how to counter that, because that is boring BB to me. If I get too much into specific strategies and counters it turns into chess. Goblinball is better for beginners IMO.

Personally to start with I would forget about the ball. Give them 6 players each making sure to put some block and dodge in. So if you have an undead team you could give them 1 mummy, 1 wight, 1 ghoul, and 3 zombies each. Give them just blocks and blitzes but otherwise play full rules (e.g. turnovers and dodging). Players are removed on an armour break and play last man standing. At this point you just want to get them comfortable with what the block dice results are, how to work out how many are rolled, and moving for assists. Also they learn turnovers. This gives a fast action game where they get right into the core mechanics without having to listen to a lot of things.

Once you have an hour of that then move up to a game. Keep the teams simple for skills and balance them yourself. Teach them pass and hand off but leave fouls out for now. Do kick off scatters but don't roll the kick off table (or weather). Also add in injury rolls at this point.

Print off a roster showing a picture of the model being used with the stats and skills. Put common action results on this (like pick up on a 3+, dodge on a 3+) rather than explaining all the rules. Print off a block dice result cheat sheet.

I think that is plenty for the first night. The important thing is to get them rolling dice as fast as possible and not giving them a huge overview of the game.

I thought I had some good advice...until I read Wulfyn's post!! Wulfyn, have you had a lot of experience teaching? Sounds like it.

I usually ref'd a 1 on 1 game when teaching. With me sitting out, it was much easier to teach them and give pointers. I used premade Orc/Human teams and would go over most of the rules with them. I also tried to explain the difference between finesse and bash teams, but they didn't seem to understand that until they had a few games.

Once I had a few coaches up to speed, I could play a game and sit nearby the other 2s game. Then they could interrupt me with rules questions along the way. I had one player tell me it all clicked when he started playing the computer game shortly thereafter. That seemed to help him a lot.

Blocking and assists seems to be the first big hurdle for most coaches. Next is when they should or shouldn't pick up the ball.

I would start off by telling them that this is NOT football. I tried playing like it was football on my first game, and ended up discouraged that I couldn't pick up the ball most of the time or even pass. I thought the game was dumb and swore never to play it again (yea, that didn't last)!

Wulfyn's idea of using only 6 figs is great, and I am definitely borrowing that next time I teach. It helps them to concentrate on just a few things and thus start learning the mechanics. I also like the ideas about really basic cheat sheets. If possible, I'd probably try and cut down the field to Blood Bowl 7s size as well. Luckily I have one on order. [EDIT: Oops, missed Wulfyn's part of "forget about the ball". Mat size doesn't matter if they are all going to just hammer at each other.]

Wulfyn wrote:Personally to start with I would forget about the ball. Give them 6 players...
...and not giving them a huge overview of the game.

Awesome idea, Wulfyn.

Wulfyn is very similar to how I teach it...let me copy a post I made elsewhere.

---------------------
Keep it simple. The following USUALLY works well.

Fully painted minis. Just do it.
Although i know the new game has player cards, make sure they are available for reference. If you don't have the cards a simple roster breakdown with skill descriptions work. Keep the teams simple, Orc v Human is fine.
Explain blocking (don't worry about assisting JUST yet).
Dodging.
Moving including GFI.
Explain the different actions BUT gloss over Passing and Hand offs..just say "you can do them, we will worry about it when we get there".
Explain TURNOVERS and Team Rerolls.
Tacklezones and don't worry about Stunned/Armour rolls.

Get them into a game. Explain setup restrictions...give them the ball (don't worry about kicking/kick off tables). Get them playing.

The trick here is to play 2-3 turns quickly...let them score by doing stupid things deliberately and pointing them out. Do a dodge, explain the concept, how it works..roll the dice...fail etc. Put yourself on the sideline, show them how to crowdsurf AND injure roll that.

Once scored..introduce assists and armour rolls, stunned etc.

The premise of this is to lose while demonstrating, don't flood them with advanced rules and/or tactics. Get them playing quickly. 10 minutes tops to explain the BASICS. if they are interested...introduce more concepts. Within 30 minutes they will have learnt the game....play for 45 minutes and talk about it

Some tips while playing

How AWESOME is the turnovers, it really introduces you to risk reward. Did you know a Snotling could kill an Ogre one on one...its unlikely but possible.
Its brilliant how nearly every roll could kill YOUR player as well.....
Why is that a 2 dice block? Show me??
How many block dice do I roll? Why?
Risk reward etc etc

The trick is to play shortened games, give them idea and then TALK ABOUT IT. That talking will get others involved...then when someone new comes along...you get them AND the person you have already taught to play a few turns......

This has worked REALLY well for me in the past....

--------
When asked as to which the team the "teacher" should use, orcs or humans...

Humans. But give them a choice. Usually what I say is "Humans are kind of jack of all trades while the Orcs are VIOLENT"....that usually is enough to sway them....don't use the big guys.....too many "extra rules" to worry about. By all means have them there afterwards to talk about.

Rosters don't need to be even

Orc 4 BLOB (str4 is good for teaching) 4 Bitzer (Block) 1 Thrower (sure hands) 2 Lineman 3 rerolls

Human 4 Blitzers (block) 2 Catchers (str2 for dice calcs, also shows that an assist is still +1 str regardless of the players strength, dodge and catch) 1 Thrower (sure hands) 4 Lineman 3 rerolls

This minimises the skills they will see. Block is ESSENTIAL to learn. Dodge is great to show them what it means in a block (talk about tackle). Sure Hands...don't burn uneccasary team rerolls. Str4 and Str2 are GREAT for learning and teaching assists etc etc and the importance of 2 dice blocks. If you do as I suggested and not worry about assists for the first few turns...that really helps cement assisting later on.

Burn your rerolls...do dumb things so you can explain...now I have to be careful. You can always give them back rerolls if needed.

Let them hit you. Its easier as a human coach to show them things (stupid 2 dice against blocks) and to give them an advantage if you play the humans, but hey, if they want to use them, don't stop them.

The key is to let them enjoy the game and learn the basics. Let them win now, destroy them in the league

You don't need to play properly during the demo, one dice with block, explain why its less risky than 1 dice without. 2 dice against, bad idea etc etc.

After the demo when you are talking about the game (I can't stress this enough, keep them talking) show them a cage, cage defence and other little cool stuff.

Generally, its going to be slow as you explain and they ask. So make turnovers to speed it up. They will try things like picking up first, give them a brief warning that if it fails, its a turnover...but let them make the mistake, it opens up the conversation of risk limitation.

CRITICALLY....hoot, holler...have fun...show passion. People follow passion.

Madsherman wrote:Hey, I'm planning on inviting over 3 friends and teach them this wonderful game on a one off night. Thing is, as we all know, the rules aren't as streamlined and easy to pick up as many boardgames are these days. So this is what I have planned to do:
1)Talk about the basics rules of the game.
2) have premade rosters for each of the teams I have available
3) omit/glaze over various things I don't feel they need to learn the first time around.

This is the order and amount I think I'll teach:

Blood bowl:
-Is a game of 2 coaches, controlling their 11 players over 2X8 turns to score as many TDs as possible.

-each turn you activate as many of the 11 players as you want, or until a TO happens. (Explain TO's)

-talk MA-ST-AG-AV and tacklezones. Use human lineman as an example, explain skills later.

- talk about the 6 actions ( 2 repetitive, 4 one offs) declaring them, and flipping minis
- MOVE, ballpickup+TO, GFI+TO, Dodges+TO
- BLOCK, st comparison, sides of the die + TO, ball scatter, crowdsurfs. Assists.
- BLITZ: -"-
- PASS, interception, modifiers, catching. TO's
- HANDOFF, TO
- FOULING, "cheaper fouls expensive". TO

-Talk team rerolls. Talk skill rerolls.

-UP UNTIL THIS POINT TAKES ABOUT 30 MINS.

-Talk team comp + positionals. Give brief overview of teams at hand (humans, orcs, norse, dwarves, high elves, skaven and halflings)

GENERAL PLAYSTYLES: Bash vs dash

________________________________________________________________END OF NEED TO KNOW ITEMS__________________________________________________________________________________________________________

PLAY TERMS: I'd like to briefly touch on these three items
Cage (tight/loose)
Screen
Marking

SETUP: I figured It'd be easier if we all just set up and kicked off together. I don't feel that there's need for weather, but I'dlike to keep the kickoff event as I feel it is very BB to keep it in, and I have spent money on FF in team creation.
-Fans
-no weather
-coinflip
-setup
-kickoff

-TIPS: I'm on the fence whether to say this to any of them or let them figure out by themselves.
-roll as few dice as possible
-safe-> medium safe-> unsafe -priorities.
-sidelines

I will be playing my halfling team, to even things out.

-What do you guys think? Would you cut off more fat? I did toy with the idea that we could play with linemen only, but dwarves and norse would be at an def advantage, and the guys do know how to play pretty advanced boardgames and RPGs, so I think they'll like having positionals.

I would also ditch fouling and probably passing for the first game although I feel like playing without a ball entirely might be a step too far. Might be worth moving the risk/reward discussion higher in the list because unforced TOs really kill enjoyment. I would however approach this conversation in-game as examples come up.

I understand that fouling is an easy thing to leave out, but I wouldn't. In watching new players in the last 6 months I have seen how much they like fouling. They will learn quickly enough that it's usually a bad idea.

I find the idea of teaching first without a ball to be fascinating. I think it could work well.

The hardest thing for the people I have watched to learn is counting assists to blocking. I wish I could find an easier way to teach that.

CyberedElf wrote:The hardest thing for the people I have watched to learn is counting assists to blocking. I wish I could find an easier way to teach that.

I don't initially. A pure str vs str of those involved. Results in a lot of 1 dice blocks BUT I also make sure there is Str2 and Str4 out there. That way you can set up a 2 dice block ad go "see how much more effective and safe......NOW let me show you how to assist".

This way they have progressed through blocking, strength differences and what they mean. Now you can show ways to get that strength advantage. Lets them associate a rule with a reason to do it.

Sorry for the late reply Faust - I was at the Tilean Team Cup over the weekend. Wow do those Predatori Firenzi guys know how to throw a party!

I do a lot of training in my work, mainly teaching people how to build statistical models. The principle is the same that you need to get them doing things rather than just listening as too much information at once just puts people off. A friend of mine recently talked em through the rules for Scythe (great game) and said "oh one last thing" about 8 times and I nearly fell asleep haha. He explained the rules really well and I was tired from travelling but it was just too much to take in all in one go.

There were a couple of guys in my team that were super sharp but struggled a bit with prioritisation of work, especially as they had both just recently become managers and so had to prioritise other peoples' work and not just their own. I actually took an afternoon and dragged them to a nearby pub and taught them the basics of blood bowl using a few of the ideas above. The point was that the turnover rule in Blood Bowl is actually a really good metaphor for a corporate project based environment. There are things that you know are coming and present a risk to project completion like a critical deadline (3+ dodge with the ball carrier), and you need to make sure that all the easy stuff has been done well in advance (standing players up) so that if things do go wrong there are contingency plans in place. Sometimes it is worth getting someone on your team to cover a fail rather than assuming everything will work. Being able to quickly identify risk bottlenecks, prioritise actions, and take appropriate steps is the core of both project management and blood bowl.

No worries Wulfyn, and thanks for the response.

Scythe is a great game indeed, probably one of my top 10 favorite boardgames right now.

I've been a trainer, manager, project manager at my work as well. Though I've never thought of taking the crew to the pub for some Blood Bowl training. Great idea! Yea, risk mitigation is key in Blood Bowl, and something you don't see in a lot of games. I wasn't initially taught how to play Blood Bowl and that was probably a large factor of why I didn't like the game. I was too used to rpgs, where you roll a lot of dice and just work out the consequences through the story. I found if you were a really good improviser (and smarter than your Dungeon Master), dice were not always that important. Pretty much the opposite, where your whole strategy can collapse with one bad die roll.

Once I started to learn the risk management aspect and why different teams play differently, then I really started to become interested in the game. I think initially it was just the risk management, but I've become more interested in the play style of various teams. Especially listening to different coaches theories on why you should play one of the teams a certain way or what the best team composition is. There is so much variety in the game, that I would think there is a team that pretty much matches any coach's personality.

The skills learned in Blood Bowl certainly do apply to most work environments. Glad you pointed that out.

Madsherman, would love to hear how teaching went. Did you try some of the things here? What worked, what didn't?

I'm going to be teaching our teen how to play probably in the next couple months. I taught him how to play a few years ago, but he was much younger, and I'm guessing he forgot everything by now. I'm going to try a game of BB7's with him, as that should be much faster and easier with only 7 players each on the field. I'll likely use a lot of the advice here on our first go round.