Talk Fantasy Football

Hi all

I realise this isn't very easy to comment on without seeing but I'm wondering if I'm thinning my paint too much?

My team are primed in black and I'm using citadel paints. I am trying to find the balance point where the paint flows easily from the brush without obscuring detail but it seems to be taking a lot if coats to get an even coverage.

To give you an idea, a white, flesh or yellow over the black primer is taking about six coats and darker colours like blue or green are taking about four... I'm a slow enough painter as is but at this rate it's becoming a mammoth task!

Do you have any tips about judging the correct consistency at least until I become experienced enough to know or is this number of coats to be expected?

Many thanks, as always.

Thought this was going to be Geggster / Podfrey / Wightlord talking seeking hairdressing advice...



(very sorry, couldn't resist!!)

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On the painting issue, it's always hard painting GW yellows, reds etc. directly over black. White would be a much better undercoat for these colours.

I don't think you're thinning paints too much, it's just a throw-back from using black primer.
I used to prime in black but I've recently switched back to white - both have their pros and cons.

When you use black, you are probably better off using citadels range of base coat paints for your first coat - I've no idea what they call them these days, they seem to change them more often than I change my underwear. The cynic in me says that the official advice to undercoat in black was to sell this particular range of paint.

Everyone will probably have different opinions, but if you take my advice, you'd switch back to white primer.

I was expecting some jokes about weight loss. I didn't even see the hair angle

Yeah, I'm wondering if I should have white primed. Trouble is I've struggled on through three players and if I re-prime now I'm worried the difference in brightness will be too noticeable.

Personally i always undercoat black as it suits my painting style and allows me to leave the black in deep recesses. if your using old gw paints or the new layer ones you will need a fair few thin coats to get an even coverage. i like the new gw range (i got the full set recently) and find the base colurs even thinned gives a great cover on 1 or 2 applications.

I use the Vallejo Game color and model color ranges.

With those I switched from basecoating in black to basecoating in grey (automotive primer. About $6 for a 400ml can)

You will notice a significant difference in brightness of the colors if you switch now though without stripping the other 3 models.

One thing you could do is (and I used that when painting large amounts of miniatures in a short time before) drybrush the base colors on. Bonewhite or grey covers better then white or yellow. Just drybrush one of those on areas that will be lighter, then apply 2-3 layers of the brighter paint and one for shading and you´re done.

When counting the different layers I used for shading and accentuation on the giant I´m painting right now I´m at 10+ layers and the skin is still not done.

The minotaur I painted has only 1 layer of actual paint over the basecoat in most areas.

I all depends a lot on the colors you use but white, yellow and bright orange will always be difficult.

It's been said multiple times already. Use a white primer for fewer layers.

Alternatively, you could switch to a heavier pigment paint. I've not used them but perhaps the base/foundation paints would be better for this task.

Thanks for the quick responses. Think I'll persevere with the black for now and just accept it will take more layers.

I may try white or grey primer on my next team to see how I get on.

Sounds like the actual consistency probably isn't too far off what it should be based on the comments.

Thanks for the tips.

I paint with black primer, and while I do thin my base coat it usually only takes 2 coats ant the most, so it does sound like to me that you may be thinning it down a bit too mush. Where I thin out more is the layering coats. I like my layering coats to be thinned down to the point of light cream. S.

The primer I use depends on what colour the model will be. It's very hard to find good yellows or reds that cover black undercoat so if I'm expecting to paint a lot of that I'll use white instead, especially if the skin will be a light color.

But if you're using GW's stuff then use the base paints 1st, ideally a darker shade than you want as you can then highlight up to the true colour.

prior to changing your paint thinning method I would try grey or white primer. Since switching to white I would have a lot of trouble going back, unless I was painting a team that is mostly black or metallic

The fact you are using a black primer shouldn't be a problem.
Even with a 50/50 thinning you should still get enough coverage.
The amount of layers sounds about right but it also depends on the amount of shading/transitions you want to achieve.

However if I'm reading your post correctly, you're applying the final colours directly on the black primer. For the colours you stated that's never a good idea and the results will always be rather poor.

You need to apply a basecoat colour on top of the primer to make the (first) transition less severe.
For yellow use some brown
For white use grey
For flesh use a darker flesh

Thanks for all the suggestions.

My technique at the moment is very basic: primer, base colours, wash to add shading then drybrush/highlight with a lighter version of the base colour.

I'd never thought about using a transition colour between the primer and the base colour. I'll give that a try.

I ought to add that I'm not really at the stage of using multiple layers yet. I've just about got the hang of a little dry brushing to add some highlights. I'm keen to learn more advanced stuff as my ability improves, though!

First of all, my goodness use a white primer. Trust me, just use a white primer.

What you'll find with a white primer is that if you use paints at a "milk like" consistency you'll achieve a little bonus highlight through the transparency of the paint showing the white primer underneath.

Here's a good tutorial on this style:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kKX18Wi6OGc

I use a black primer myself; I've never got on with white which I started with in the early 1990s and had another stab with last year. I personally find black quicker and more forgiving.

I nearly always use a basecoat to underly bright colours; a brown under yellow, a grey under white. Sometimes I use a GW-style foundation paint, but by and large you can build up from black with most colours simply by starting dark and working up lighter (with optional washes).