TTM Fumbles

Bob-the-Fish · Post by **Bob-the-Fish** » Mon Aug 25, 2003 5:09 pm

In a game I'm playing with my goblins on REBBL, I got a fumble on a TTM play (Long Pass -1, rolled a 2, 2-1=1, =fumble). As far as I understand TTM can not result in a turnover unless the thrown player is carrying the ball and falls over. My gobbo did not have the ball so I continued my turn.

My opponent said that it should be a turnover and pointed me to a link to a previous discussion on this site. After reading over it, it seemed that the issue on whether a fumble on a TTM play should be a turnover regardless of ball possesion is still up in the air. As far as I know the house rules for REBBL don't say anything either way and the commish says he'd play it as not a turnover.

What's the general feeling right now about TTM fumbles? (not inaccurate passes, since the rulebook is pretty clear on those)

narkotic · Post by **narkotic** » Mon Aug 25, 2003 5:32 pm

Wrong:

TTM turnover happens when the player who carries theball fails to land properly OR you fumble your TTM roll. The text that says that turnover only happens when the thrown player has the ball refers to LANDING only. TTM is treated like a pass action = fumble means turnover.

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Mon Aug 25, 2003 5:32 pm

Bob-the-Fish wrote:What's the general feeling right now about TTM fumbles? (not inaccurate passes, since the rulebook is pretty clear on those)

Actually the LRB is very clear about Fumbles from TTM as well.

See the rulebook clearly states that failed LANDING rolls without the ball are not turnovers. With a Fumbled TTM there is no landing roll, so you don't qualify for this exception.

Since you don't qualify from the TTM exception on landing rolls, you default back to page 8 of the LRB:

2. A player on the moving team is knocked down or falls over

IE ... a fumbled TTM is a turnover always. (Its why Pass and Pro are key on Big Guys if you want to use TTM plays).

Galak

Asmodan · Post by **Asmodan** » Mon Aug 25, 2003 5:57 pm

BOB REBBL don´t use house rules and that was actually what the discussion was about (house rule this differently or keep it to LRB)
And you probably read my answer allready saying the same as Galak.

Bob-the-Fish · Post by **Bob-the-Fish** » Mon Aug 25, 2003 7:13 pm

Now that I have read that section umpteen times it makes sense the way you all put it. It just was unclear at first because it is never stated directly in the TTM section that I could see that a fumble is automatically a turnover regardless of ball posession. I guess they just assumed it would be obvious to people that it wasn't a failed landing roll and a player fell down so it's a turnover. Didn't someone say they should have a complete list of every event that can cause a turnover? That would be great slow people like me who take a while to figure out all the cross referances.

Anyway, thanks for the clarification.

tchatter · Post by **tchatter** » Mon Aug 25, 2003 8:37 pm

To clarify further... I agree that the LRB interpretation is that a fumbled TTM is a turnover.

BUT...

I felt that there should still be a landing roll made on a fumble if the Player didn't have the ball. Just to lessen the risk of throwing a Goblin with a Troll for example...

However, I have been reading through the arguements here and at the REBBL forums and have been putting a lot of thought into it. So - Bob look for an official 'REBBL' ruling soon.

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Mon Aug 25, 2003 9:12 pm

tchatter wrote:I felt that there should still be a landing roll made on a fumble if the Player didn't have the ball. Just to lessen the risk of throwing a Goblin with a Troll for example...

Rich ... TTM does not need improved ... really it doesn't ... take it from a Stunty coach .. the fumble risk is needed. If you want to improve the Goblin team use the revised rules for weapons where they get a free one at the beginning of each game. Then also switch to the new Halfling Master Chef and you'll have done a good favor to each team without improving TTM.

Galak

Bob-the-Fish · Post by **Bob-the-Fish** » Tue Aug 26, 2003 2:21 am

The funnest thing I can think of to improve goblins would be give them access to Dirty Player on a normal skill roll. I just like the idea of evil fouling gobbos. I know it's a little extreme but still sounds fun.

narkotic · Post by **narkotic** » Tue Aug 26, 2003 5:20 am

I think there has been a poll about goblins getting DP six months ago. Most people were against, though.

Darkson · Post by **Darkson** » Tue Aug 26, 2003 6:51 am

Heh, Gobbos with DP in a Gobbo Leeg

Should make for quick matches.

Post by **Old Man Draco** » Tue Aug 26, 2003 10:59 am

Darkson wrote:Should make for quick matches.

Aren't your's quick enough??? YOu don't leave any players on the field even without a DP!!!!

Darkson · Post by **Darkson** » Tue Aug 26, 2003 11:24 am

Ah, but I haven't finished a match in the 1st half yet

slackman · Post by **slackman** » Thu Aug 28, 2003 3:41 am

seems im a bit late in joining this one, plenty of people have told you already that a fumble is a turnover. however, you should note you get -1 simply for throwing a teammate instead of the ball. so a ttm to long range is actually a -2, not a -1. so you really rolled a zero

slackman42

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