Multiple block and assists.

[Zy-Nox]

OK what about this then,
Beastman with multiple block dauntless and horns,
He blitzes uses MB to block two players, makes the dauntless roll so is equal strength can he then add horns to increase his strength,in effect getting a 2 dice block?

[Acerak]

Absolutely. This has very little to do with Multiple Block. It's just how Dauntless and Horns interact.

-Chet

[Thadrin]

THERE'S a combo we can expect to see soon then. That's pure evil....or should that be pure Chaos? Whatever....

[SixFootDwarf]

The horns should be factored in first...so using Dauntless would only work if he was blocking a Mummy or Ogre or something.

[Acerak]

Horns are no more factored in first than they are used when trying to use the Break Tackle or Piling On skills. Dauntless allows you to compare ST values and make a roll prior to the Block. The average Beastman is ST3, so if he hits a Black Orc (ST4), he can roll Dauntless to psyche himself up to ST4...and then stick his Horns insto the BOB's gut for an extra pt of ST.

-Chet

[High & Mighty]

Nasty, Nasty stuff. I could see that coming to blows if (or should I say when) I try that in my league.

I'm sure this has been asked before, but if you multiple block and get a knock down and have mighty blow, etc, can you add the modifier to the roll for both victims or do you then have to choose which it goes to?

[DoubleSkulls]

I think I agree with SixFootDwarf. The current Dauntless/Horns (plus Multiple Block) combo is very powerful - and we have a skaven player who loves to have GR's with Block, Dauntless, Horns.

I've always thought that Horns should be factored in before Dauntless - you can still get the good blocks in, but need assists.

Ian

[SixFootDwarf]

Hmmm...I dunno. That can bring up a whole host of weird issues, Chet. Technically it says that when a player with horns blitzes, add +1 to his ST, right? So if the coach says, "This guy is gonna blitz" and then uses say Break Tackle to dodge through a tackle zone he'd count as being a ST4 for that dodge roll?? Or if he blitzes, then piles on you'd add 4 to the armor??

It would all depend on how soon the Horny( ) player gets the +1ST...as soon as he declares the blitz action, or as soon as he gets to his target. If it's right away, the Break Tackle combo would work, but not the Dauntless. If it's at the target, then no on the BT but yes on the Dauntless. I haven't ever come across a Dauntless Beastman before so I've never had to think about it.

That's why I love this forum...

*kisses everyone*

[SixFootDwarf]

As far as the MB affecting both targets of a Multiple Block, Zy....I dunno. It says that both players are treated as one with player with their STs combined, right? If so you'd only get to use MB on one guy or the other...as you can't use one skill to affect 2 armor rolls. Theoretically though...if a guy hits hard (termed MB by us) then it should affect both guys.

[Acerak]

Hmmm...I dunno. That can bring up a whole host of weird issues, Chet. Technically it says that when a player with horns blitzes, add +1 to his ST, right?

No, it actually says he may add +1 to his ST when he makes a Block. But it also says he has to take a Blitz action, and he has to move at least one square before throwing the block.

So no, you can't use it on Break Tackle. And you can't use it for Piling On, either.

Now Dauntless clearly says to compare the ST values of the players involved in the block BEFORE throwing the block. And the ST value of the Beastman is 3, and the BOB is 4, so...Dauntless to 4, then add +1 for Horns whether it works or not. This is all in the rules. Some rules require more careful reading, that's all

Cheers!

-Chet

[SixFootDwarf]

*mutters*

Damn, foiled again.

[Cusi]

Now Dauntless clearly says to compare the ST values of the players involved in the block BEFORE throwing the block.
-Chet

actually dauntless' wording refers to an opponent in the singular. It never refers or implies using it on multiple opoenents and is worded as frenzy is worded. You can't frenzy multiple opponents, why would you be able to dauntless multiple opponents? The wording is the same, both refer to a singular opponent. Dauntless clearly states one opponent. Multiblock clearly states two opposing players.

Dauntless (General Trait)
A player with this trait is capable of psyching themselves up so
that they can take on even the very strongest <i>opponent</i>. The
skill only works when the player attempts to block <i>an opponent</i>
who is stronger than himself. When the skill is used the coach
of the Dauntless player rolls two dice and adds them together.
If the total is greater than the <i>opponent’s</i> Strength value, then
the Dauntless player’s Strength is counted as being equal to his
opponent’s when he makes the block, before any bonuses for
skills and defensive or offensive assists are added. If the dice
roll is less than or equal to the opponent’s Strength value, then
the Dauntless player must use his normal Strength for the block.

Multiple Block (Strength Skill)
The player is allowed to block two opposing players at the same
time. The opposing players must be next to the player making
the block and next to each other. Their strengths are added
together and both suffer the effects of the block equally. Both
sides may use assists normally.

While it says one block in multiple block they are never refered to as one entity they are 2 players, while dauntless clearly refers to blocking one opponent.

[Goryus]

Dauntless
...If the total is greater than the opponent’s Strength value, then
the Dauntless player’s Strength is counted as being equal to his
opponent’s when he makes the block...

Multiple Block
...Their strengths are added
together and both suffer the effects of the block equally. Both
sides may use assists normally....

Again, we suffer from the wording being incosistent in the LRB. I believe, however, that what the Multiple Block description is intended to mean is: "Their strengths are added together and this total is used as the opponent's Strength value for this block only. Both sides suffer the effects of the block equally, and may use assists normally...". This does not seem like much of a stretch, given the wording we have to work with.

However, I still have a confusion over this: the rules review says you cannot frenzy with multiple block, because it is not a "straight-forward normal block." This is clearly insane. Is a dauntless block a "straight-forward normal block"? What about a horns blitz? And if a Multiple Block is to be considered a distinct kind of action from a Block, then 90% of the block skills will no longer apply to it (which is fine by me, but needs to be consistent across the boards). If it is, in fact, considered a Block, then we need a definition of just what the heck a "straight-forward normal block" is. If it's really just intended, as I suspect, to limit the use of the Frenzy/Multiple Block combo, then (in my opinion) they should just come out and say that Frenzy doesn't happen when you perform a Multiple Block, and leave it at that. If they desperately need a justification, the frenzied rage is spent just as effectively blocking two people as it would be by blocking one guy twice, so while he's still frenzied and foaming at the mouth, it doesn't have any discernible gameplay effects.

Just my 2 cents.

['Ed Basha']

I posted my two cents about his on another thread, so I'll just clarify the remaining thing...it does say in an faq, that any skills you possess such as mb, rsf or rsc or claw or PO can be used against both victims of a MB. frenzy is not used because it is only used against a normal block against a single opponent, the emphasis on single opponent. dauntless is not that specific, and can be used in a mb. If you go by the letter of the wording, you cannot use frenzy when you blitz, since it is not a 'block' although we all know you can, since it doesn't say ' block action'. Therein lies the difference.

[orcdom]

by chance where is this FAQ?

i would love a copy.
Steve