Diving Tackle

Zombie · Post by **Zombie** » Mon Sep 02, 2002 12:29 am

Yeah, that makes sense Bevan.

In my league though, none of this ever comes up, because we play diving tackle the way it was in 4th ed and the way it should have been in BB2k1: you have to put the player down before the dodge is rolled. Makes so much more sense that way, i never want to play it any differently. Actually, i don't think i'll ever play in a GW tournament until they change that rule, because i'm so totally against it.

Deathwing · Post by **Deathwing** » Mon Sep 02, 2002 1:31 am

Zombie wrote:Actually, i don't think i'll ever play in a GW tournament until they change that rule, because i'm so totally against it.

I agree that there may be some issues with the whole declaration issue, but it really has no impact on Tourney play. Long term Leagues there may be a case. 4-8 games? No, can't see it.

Zombie · Post by **Zombie** » Mon Sep 02, 2002 1:53 am

It will have an impact as soon as one player takes the skill.

Deathwing · Post by **Deathwing** » Mon Sep 02, 2002 2:30 am

Zombie wrote:It will have an impact as soon as one player takes the skill.

I took Undead at Res.
One normal access skill per player after each game, no doubling up.
I went Block on a mummy after game 1, and ditto the other mummy game 2. Do you PO is a better option? How about an Ogre or BOB? PO before Block?
Like I said earlier, a long term League scenario is a whole different discussion, but in a Tournament enviroment with limited skill access, do you really think that choosing to PO after seeing the AV roll has that much impact that you'd take PO over other skills?

Zombie · Post by **Zombie** » Mon Sep 02, 2002 4:39 am

First of all, yes i would take pilling on before block for a mummy, especially with the current version of pilling on (which we don't use here). Second, most tournaments don't have weird rules like that and let you get skills normally. That way, it's easy to get up to 15 to 20 skills in a short amount of games, and pilling on and diving tackle will become a huge factor.

Besides, i decided not to go in order to protest against the current rules. It's kind of a silent protest if you will.

EDIT: I just noticed you said one skill PER PLAYER. Well, that's just silly, and one more reason for me not to go.

Deathwing · Post by **Deathwing** » Mon Sep 02, 2002 1:34 pm

Zombie wrote:First of all, yes i would take pilling on before block for a mummy, especially with the current version of pilling on (which we don't use here). Second, most tournaments don't have weird rules like that and let you get skills normally. That way, it's easy to get up to 15 to 20 skills in a short amount of games, and pilling on and diving tackle will become a huge factor.

Besides, i decided not to go in order to protest against the current rules. It's kind of a silent protest if you will.

EDIT: I just noticed you said one skill PER PLAYER. Well, that's just silly, and one more reason for me not to go.

"Most tournaments don't have wierd rules like that?" Resurrection did, Orion did, the upcoming Spiky has and the recent Amsterdam tournie had two skills (on random players) per game. None of them allowed skill stacking. "Silly"? It's simple and it works. Basic straightforward tactical BB. Tournies are whole different things to League play.
I simply refuse to believe that anybody is going to rack up 15-20 skills over a short amount of games ( 6 games, 2 days, 3 games a day?), let alone find it "easy".
Tournies are about meeting new people, renewing old acquaintances, testing your ability against coaches outside your usual playing circle and having fun while you're about it.
Of course your 'silent protest' is entirely your prerogative, but hey, it's your loss as well. If you restrict yourself to playing in a microcosm you'll never know how good you really are.

Zombie · Post by **Zombie** » Mon Sep 02, 2002 2:04 pm

If you get one new skill per player per game, then on game 6 you would have 5 skills on each player, right? And you don't find that silly?

The chaos dwarf team that won our last league had over 15 skills at the end of the season, which lasted 7 games. Granted, that wasn't the case for most teams in the league, so maybe it's not as "easy" as i made it sound.

Post by **Thadrin** » Mon Sep 02, 2002 2:22 pm

Zombie wrote:If you get one new skill per player per game, then on game 6 you would have 5 skills on each player, right? And you don't find that silly?

Of course thats silly.
5 skills TOTAL accross the team. each one on a seperate player, so you end up with 5 players with a skill each.

I think the method we used in AMsterdam is very good myself: two skill rolls per game, on random players.

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Mon Sep 02, 2002 2:44 pm

Zombie wrote:If you get one new skill per player per game, then on game 6 you would have 5 skills on each player, right? And you don't find that silly?

The chaos dwarf team that won our last league had over 15 skills at the end of the season, which lasted 7 games. Granted, that wasn't the case for most teams in the league, so maybe it's not as "easy" as i made it sound.

One for only one player at the end of each match.

This by the way is becoming very much the standard for BB tournys. Resurrection next year will use the same .... GenCon in 2003 will use this format ... and majority of major tournaments otherwise are using it.

If you don't go Zombie as a protest .... well sorry but the only effect that has is that you didn't show up.

Galak

Acerak · Post by **Acerak** » Mon Sep 02, 2002 3:38 pm

"Active" skills are a myth, I think. There are some skills you can't "turn off" (e.g., Frenzy), and some you wouldn't want to turn off (e.g., Tackle), but they have to be declared to be used.

So let's examine the 2K1 version of Diving Tackle. It involves a -2 modifier that you can declare and turn on, just like you can Tackle. The difference? There's a penalty for using it; namely, you go prone. If you try to think it through using real-world logic it won't work for you, but as a game mechanic it's not bad at all. (I'd like to change it, mind you.)

Hey, if you think it's too powerful as written, try this:

1. Use the 2K1 description.
2. Incorporate the 3E rule about not causing turnovers unless the opposing player had the ball.

Should solve any balance issues nicely.

As for 3E DT, it gets dangerous rather quickly and is easily abused, I think. Perhaps there should be no assists allowed on the attacker's side, as he's moving ahead of his team-mates.

-Chet

Deathwing · Post by **Deathwing** » Mon Sep 02, 2002 6:40 pm

Deathwing wrote: One normal access skill per player after each game, no doubling up.

Apologies for the typo and ensuing confusion..I did of course mean one normal access skill on any one player after each game.
Sorry!