Which rules are the Official ones?

[Deathwing]

Oh, and (this seems to come up 3 times a year! ), the World Series is so called because it was started/once sponsored by 'World' magazine.

[Joaquim]

I guess the ideia behind "it isn't official until it's printed" means that in a email he is saying his opinion....

So, the fact that e email isn't "printed" doesn't mean that the LRB isn't "printed" also, for me it is!....

I have no doubt that the "order" is:

* LRB

* Anual & Printed rule book (the last edited taking precedence)

Just because they said they will try to keep the printed book up to date with the LRB....

[Ithilkir]

Which ever ones are the easiest to get a hold of and most available to the public.

[Xynok]

Is it really that hard to post an errata sheet on their website? Heck, send the updated sheet to me every month and I'll do it free of charge, using my own web host.

Rules errata via the internet is crucial if the game is ever to be taken seriously.

Honestly, with LRB 1.3, the game is the best it has EVER been. All we need now are a few skill clarifications, a few oversights remedied, and a few mechanics tightened up. New teams should not be intorduced until the RULES are streamlined and an errata sheet is available on the net. In other words, first things first.

We consider LRB the absolute final word as far as offical rules go, but like most, we have house rules. Most of our house rules stem from ambiguities in the rules, however.

[Casper]

If an Living Rule Book is not made to keep an up-to-date source of official rules (since its too expensive to print a new version rule book too often), then why the *%#! make a LRB afterall?.
The LRB <b>IS</b> the the official rules, and its rulings superseeds any printet material.

[Babs]

Doing my dutiful BBRC thing...

As I said on some Blood Bowl forum, change logs will be included from LRB2
onwards. (Stop hitting me so hard with that bloody stick)

Andy Hall
Fanatic Editor

He! This is fun!

Don't forget that even the LRB will need to be translated into Swahili/French/German/Afrikaan etc. Hopefully someone understands English well enough to slog out the hard yards.

Has anyone actually done this? That's some serious hours!

Don't forget my earlier point, that we all are self interested. We all think the online version should be the official version because it's the easiest for _US_ to get to.

Sure there are distribution issues with the hard copy. Would it be GW if there weren't? All those things are outside my control. Remember there are distribution issues for stuff on the web too. Believe it or not, there are gamers who abhore the internet. That's why they game instead.

remember the web isn't static. The LRB might be 'taken down' at any time - and then we'll only have the latest version. We can make mirror sites and put our own 'fake BB ruleset' up. The web is not such an authoritative source.

Now that doesn't mean that we can't make the LRB the official source - as in fact we have. However can we really state that the LRB is more authoritive than the Rulebook? Only when it supercedes it in it's update.

Now Galak tells me reliably that the LRB and the Rulebook are identical (have you seen it?). I can tell you now that the two will certainly not stay the same for long. In fact, the BBRC are even now discussing some (very minor) official changes to the rules. They should be incorporated into the LRB very soon.

But what happens if Andy Hall (shock, horror) makes a mistake and deletes a page or changes a rule inadvertantly in altering the LRB? Does that mean suddenly we have to all change our tournaments until Andy can correct the mistake after he digs out from our mailbombing of his inbox?
If the LRB is the official source- we need to make sure that it's integrity is firstly substantiated (not sure if this is achieved at the time of me writing this) and secondly maintained.

The LRB is a fantastic idea, I am a very big supporter of it. All I am stating is that I think I'd prefer to quote from a printed book. People know what I'm on about. It also saves me printing the LRB every time there's a change.

(Bring on the changelog, then I'll be able to print that.)

So while I have no doubt that the LRB is the most logical source for official
material - can we put our faith in it entirely over the hard printed material?

[Grumbledook]

Just as much as you can put faith in a printed rulebook afaiac. What with ammendments in the annual and the whole white dwarf whatever number it was, if you didn't happen to get these you would be using an outdated printed rulebook anyway. Then of course there are misprints and typos in printed material, I seem to remember there being a few ammendments mentioned from questions and answers in white dwarf from 40k typos, or missing words.

Its a lot easier to ammend a pdf then to reprint all the rulebooks and then try to make sure people who have the wrong ones are informed. They woudl then have to pay for these, making them not happy bunnies. As someone stated, it only takes one person from a league etc to have a net connection to find a new version of the rulebook, then he/she can pass this on to other players.

Also as for andy "accidentially deleting a page", may i ask what sort of shodding company doesn't get their material checked through and proof read, or simply check it verses the old one. Games workshop have narked me off quite a few times in the many years I have been playing and having rules spread out through various amounts of printed material was one of them. The LRB provides an opportunity to have an "up to date official source of rules" and I believe the reasons against don't outweigh the benefits it provides.

It would also be helpful if the actual employees in the stores were informed of stuff. I spoke to the manager in my nearest store and he was unaware that blood bowl was even due to be rerleased into the stores at the end of the month. If they were sent information about a rules update, they could pass this notice on, put a poster up in the shop etc. A note could be placed in the box, or even a paragraph printed in the rulebook, informing customers that there is a version online that is kept up to date with the rules changed. These people can ignore the changes if they want and play with the rules they have but thats their own choice.

[Sputnik]

The issues are:
* Andy makes changes when Andy can (There's no direct financial benefit in a .pdf, although you can argue a lot of indirect benefit)
* The 'in print' version and the LRB will most likely differ, even now. (Unless someone can vouch for me by seing firsthand that the LRB and the Rulebook are the one and the same word for word - Woody?)
* The LRB corrects mistakes and makes changes to the official rules. It needs a changelog (right Galak?) It's in a state of flux. How many people will always have the latest version if it's being updated?

I think the LRB should be the 'official and "printed" rules source' and any differences might easily be covered by house rules!!!

So if you buy the new game and take the rules from there without any updates, that's just fine...

However, I would like to see a LRB which is only changed in frequent but fixed turns, let's say the 1st of a month in a 6 month interval. Then everybody knows when a 'new' update will be issued and doesn't have to check once in a while or so.

Further, a league commisioner won't suddenly be wrong because one coach just got the 'new' version without anybody else noticing it yet.

To be honest, I wondered why Andy is the only one working on the LRB. Don't get me wrong and I don't want to critisize here but if BB should be taken seriously and is not intended for children aged three only (don't eat the miniatures, please ), so should the rules.

If you take this half-year interval, there should be plenty of time discussing some changes with 'someone else' before updating the LRB.
Then you could also put up a log file indicating the recent changes which is not that much work because you should have something like a checklist already forming a basis for the review by this 'someone else'.

Now, if you put that interval so that the yearly October review can be taken into account, than you could make a new LRB version (like 2.0 etc..) with a change log, and then have one other change dated half a year later. You could put this one into the Annual,too, for example. Leading in the end to the next October review with the next version (3.0)...

What I tend to dislike is this everchanging rules-discussion leading to a change here, a change there...

A more solid rules basis would IMO be nice in order to get used to the rules and get a feeling for them. Half a year is not that much time....and noone I know likes to have that BB dayly newspaper telling you that ogres from today on cost 20k due to a prining error and this maybe all the way until next Wednesday (coaches corner: check out prizes for trolls on Sunday, maby Andy makes another istake...)

You could thereby avoid obvious mistakes a bit better, still maintain that 'living rulebook' character, and, by the way, keep that game going. It doesn't make sense to say there is no direct financial benefit in a .pdf if a frequent reprint of the up-to-date-rules is too cost expensive.

Because if it happens that people can't get the latest rules, why bother at all?? Going to a tournament and being cought by surprise?? LRB2002892783483?? Never heard of? Where are you from, man?? Asked in an official store and got the wrong answer (if any)?? Your loss....

But if the living rulebook might go down some day and is excluded from the web there still must be some rulespack available to all players as a common basis for ,for example, NAF tournaments....something that should not be forgotten...

Just some of my thoughts here.

Sputnik

[Babs]

Just to let you all know that I got my Handbook while TBB was down.

and it Definately _IS_NOT_ the same as the LRB 1.3.

For example, in the Skill & Trait table on Page 37 of the LRB (p36 in the Handbook) the Racial Characteristics has 11 entires, not just 3.

That's one of many.

You either laugh, or cry.

So I'll be quoting the BB Handbook thanks.

[Deathwing]

Haha! This caused a bit of a stink on the 'official' forum while TBB was down. I locked the thread in the end. Anyway, here's what AndyH posted on the subject of which are the 'official' rules (original question included):

I am holding a copy of the Living Rule Book I just printed off in my right hand.
I am holding a copy of the Rulebook from the recently released box set in my left hand.
They are not the same book.
Which one is the real rule book?

They both are. Although the books are not exactly the same, the LRB comes in at 56 pages, the Handbook at 80 pages - both contain exactly the same rules. The major difference is one is aimed at new coaches (Handbook) the other at existing coaches (LRB).

The extra pages in the handbook is mostly background, text that existing coaches will have or have already read so it's not in the LRB to save on file sizes and print cartridges, etc.

Fanatic are constantly bringing out new teams, armies, fleets etc in our quest to support the Specialist Games this of course brings up the problem of how do we make sure coaches/players/generals have the complete game system in print? So we've tackled this by saying that as long as you have the core rulebook + the latest Annual you will have the complete game system. This way we can incorporate new teams every year and not have the old problem of coaches having to bring 5 books, 2 compendiums plus various bits of paper to a game (OK, a bit of an exaggeration but you get the picture).

This is why the Handbook comes with the 12 starter teams in the back, new coaches can settle into the game (having everything they need to play) and know if they wish to expand they can simple purchase the latest Annual or download the information for free off the internet, it's as simple as that. As you can see it really isn't some "let's take them for the money we can get" strategy it's simply a practical solution to the problem of constant support (!).

Now, the confusion seems to have happened because the book is available separately. The rulebook became available separately almost as an afterthought, when we saw the rulebook printed we thought 'cool!' And thought some existing Blood Bowl coaches would like the chance to own one as well, again no maliciously greedy intentions here just me going to Jervis "Hey, wouldn't it be great if BB coaches could get this as well" (I also wanted a hardback edition but that's another story).

So there we are, if this whole thing is to terrible for you and it's going to collapse your league then I'm sorry, but it seems a little drastic over three team lists that are freely available from this website. And now with the re-release we are going to see more coaches and I imagine the on-line BB community will swell as well. Cast your mind back 3 years when Blood Bowl was consigned to the gaming graveyard, had no support or website, surly you've got to admit we are in a better place now?

Andy @ Fanatic