Ingame Dynamics.

[Old Man Draco]

I agree with you Jonny. I would not like to play in a league that takes Bloodbowl to a level where relaxing and having fun is being replaced by having to watch every step you make because otherwise your opponent will make sure your turn ends before you've even done anything.

I guess you be using the illegal procedure call as well falconeyed?

[voyagers_uk]

Crikey, I thought my "competitiveness" was at a level beyond most people, but that kicks my butt! and I am glad of that fact!

[sangraal]

I'm constantly asking things like "Thats the ST4 guy, right?" or "Those 2 have Diving Tackle but this one doesnt, right?"

If I am not sure.

I tend to do this before I actually declare the action, but not always - I have never come across anyone using Chess tournement rules for moving players though -- if someone did that to me I would ask them for an LRB page reference for the rule. If they insisted I would use my Wizard to turn them into a Toad.

sangraal

[falconeyed]

WOW FAlconeyed,,,

I am glad I don't play in your league!!!!!

You guys are just toooooo serious for my style of play!




Maybe take a lesson from an English coach and chill a little!!!

I thought this originally as well. Then I played in a couple of tournaments that don't feel this way and then you have an opponent who wants to change his move mid way through the move but then doesn't remember where he started to begin with. The league's position prevents this in the first place. I understand it's a game and we're there to have fun, but games have rules.

[falconeyed]

I agree with you Jonny. I would not like to play in a league that takes Bloodbowl to a level where relaxing and having fun is being replaced by having to watch every step you make because otherwise your opponent will make sure your turn ends before you've even done anything.

I guess you be using the illegal procedure call as well falconeyed?

Or you have to watch your own step prior to your actions ending your own turn before you've even done anything. Your opponent doesn't make you miss a tackle zone or miscalculate a block. As for the blocking, it's subject to change until the dice are thrown. For example, if you think you're throwing a 1d block and in reality it's a 1/2d block, then as soon as you throw the dice in my league, your opponent can point out the error, at which point your opponent can force you to reroll with the correct dice amount.

Of course we use illegal procedure. We also use the 4 Minute Rule. If you're midway through a move when the timer goes off, you're done. I love the 4 Minute Rule more than anything else. If we didn't use the 4 Minute Rule, I would probably not play in a league.

[fen]

I wouldn't like to play in a league like that.

Cause I'm happy with 'once you've rolled you can't go back' and I'm happy with 'take your hand off the piece and you're finished' which are both accepted traditions in games.

But if I had to, you'd find me playing with a load of glass beads, which I'd use to plot out a players movement before actually taking it. Or I'd have a spare mini that I'd move along the path I want to take before moving the actual piece.

BB is ment to be fun and having to do that (or even worse, being told that I can't use work arounds like those I just mentioned) just does not sound fun at all.

[falconeyed]

I wouldn't like to play in a league like that.

Cause I'm happy with 'once you've rolled you can't go back' and I'm happy with 'take your hand off the piece and you're finished' which are both accepted traditions in games.

But if I had to, you'd find me playing with a load of glass beads, which I'd use to plot out a players movement before actually taking it. Or I'd have a spare mini that I'd move along the path I want to take before moving the actual piece.

BB is ment to be fun and having to do that (or even worse, being told that I can't use work arounds like those I just mentioned) just does not sound fun at all.

Fen, you could count out whatever you like and count out the path however you see fit. However, once you pick the guy up and start moving, he's moved. If you want to use glass beads, that's fine. However, the clock is ticking.

Maybe the other way to think about the dodge thing is that a dodge requires a dice roll. Once you do something that requires a dice roll, you're committed.

[Digger Goreman]

I think you just have to find your level....

The four minute rule saved my marriage... now 2 games take about 5 hours where 1 game used to take 6-8 hours....

On the more tactical side... some might think my league's use of the 4 minute rule too tight... but we all use it equally and to avoid lonnnnngggg games and the temptation to precisely evaluate and execute each painstakingly perfect move....

As far as taking moves back... we're pretty loose about it... but there are often irritating instances where the move "doesn't work out" and huge questions in my mind arise as to where the mini originally started... especially for those who don't tap out their movement (or some variation) with the mini....

One thing I REALLY got to do, and encourage everyone as well, is to clearly vocalize your action before taking it.... In my mind, as an example, everything is done and the last guy takes his (unvocalized) blitz, I dodge, roll the dice... and... my opponent objects to my going on a blitz AFTER "I've seen" the dice roll.... (Like I need to do this).... So I occasionally have to "re-roll" the dodge/whatever since I didn't make the intentions clear....

I see both sides... while folks can definitely enjoy the beer and pretzels get together, and even a league amongst certain coaches, a competitive league (imho) needs enough structure to reduce any possible misunderstandings....

[fen]

However, the clock is ticking.

That's no concern of mine - we timed my play, my average turn length is about 1 and a half mins. I plot out my entire turn during my opponents turn to save time during my own. I'd only use path mapping for Blitzes, key dodges and pass/hand off actions.

[Jural]

I play in Falconeyed's league. It's very fun, and the people are great. It may be intimidating at first, but once you internalize the 4 minute rule, IP, the consequences of moving and blocking, and other such rules, it becomes second nature and the games are quicker, and less confusing.

New coaches learn faster, and get better. IT may not be for everyone, but anyone who automatically assumes that our group doesn't have fun, get in our jokes, and play some solid Blood Bowl is simply ignorant.

And personally, I will go a step farther. If you haven't played Blood Bowl with good coaches, a 4 minute timer, IP, and "no take-backs" movement, then you haven't played real Blood Bowl.

Keep on dunking on the 8 foot rim, bowling with the bumpers in, going after the ugly women, and playing football with no contact. I'm glad that's fun, it's the whole point of a hobby! But don't try and tell the rest of the world they are doing it wrong just because they enjoy a challenge.

WOW FAlconeyed,,,

I am glad I don't play in your league!!!!!

You guys are just toooooo serious for my style of play!




Maybe take a lesson from an English coach and chill a little!!!

[Old Man Draco]

But don't try and tell the rest of the world they are doing it wrong just because they enjoy a challenge.

Nobody said your league is doing it wrong. You play by the rules and stick to them. I'm not saying that it's wrong. I'm just saying it's not my style of play and I would never fit in.
We played with illegal procedure in a league before I joined the Utrecht one. I ALLWAYS forget my turnmarker. So I hardly ever even played a turn. Great fun this game. Guess I wouldn't get a chance doing anything in your league unless I would have 8 rerolls.

Sorry but I prefer the way it goes in Utrecht and I can say the Netherlands and large parts of Europe in general (at least in the tournament scene). Easy going with the players. As long as no dice are rolled, take back any move you like. Forgot your turnmarker? Just push it ahead. Need 5 minutes this turn? Go ahead. It's a game, nothing more and both players are a lot more relaxed this way IMO.

[Jonny Deth]

I am sorry if I caused some offence. I did not mean that you do it wrong or anything like that. However every game I play is for fun and this to me sounds a little too serious ... Probably the relaxed Yorkshire bloke in me that likes an easy life and likes to spread that around.



If you forget your turn maker - never mind who cares.
If you wish to put that piece back - never mind who cares.
As long as you haven't moved anything else or rolled a die...and can remember where it started - never mind who cares.
Need more time - never mind who cares.
Need a fag break or a leak or a drink or five minute break - never mind who cares (except for the fag break - I like to see them squirm).


My league has a more relaxed style that how I like it.

[Grogmir]

Wow – look at all the different styles! Amazing…

It seems everyone is the same when providing information on players. Tactical advice etc.. the differences seem to be with regards to ‘Illegal Moves Procedure’ and the ‘4 minute rule’.

Never personally liked the 4 minute rule – the reasons being some turns I can be finished in 20 seconds. But others are more tricky and you need to the extra time. Our league uses Chess Clocks when time is monitored – 1 Hr 30 per player to be used when you want, works much better IMO.

Grogmir

[MadLordAnarchy]

I like to encourage diversity in my coaches so we let go of IP a long time ago and never played the 4-min rule. We also allow take-back so long as dice haven't been rolled. We get round the difficulties by having a third party ref so we don't have a problem but there were serious issues that we've had to consider over the years. This is a good example of why BB is a local game for local people - my league is built on particular principles and so the game is adapted to meet our needs.