Diving Catch Fumbles

[rodders]

the correct pronounciation would be hand jobber's

[alternat]

I'm quite sure it is not...

[daloonieshaman]

Daloonie, you're leaving out important bits from Diving Catch.

pg. 44 on DC

the player can attempt to catch any pass, kick off or crowd throw-in, but not bouncing ball, that would land...

The ball bounces from a fumbled pass and DC does not work on bouncing balls.

I agree but
A pass is a pass is a pass, a fumble is a failed pass, the DC can catch TZ squares. the fumble does not bounce till it hits the ground
so if he is next to the passer he snags it (Still a turnover)
if he is one square away he has no chance

[Greyhound]

A pass is a pass is a pass, a fumble is a failed pass, the DC can catch TZ squares. the fumble does not bounce till it hits the ground
so if he is next to the passer he snags it (Still a turnover)
if he is one square away he has no chance

That sounds like extrapolation, we know a "safe throw" fumble for instance does not count as a pass, since the player retains the ball.

Looking at the wording once more:

Fumbles
Sometimes a player attempting to throw the ball will drop it in his
own square. This is more likely if the player has any opposing
players breathing down his neck! To represent this, if the D6 roll
for a pass is 1 or less before or after modification, then the
thrower has fumbled and dropped the ball. The ball will bounce
once from the thrower"s square, and the moving team will suffer
a turnover and their turn ends immediately.

Emphasis mine, the thrower attempts, to throw the ball but he does not succeeds, he fails to make a pass, instead he drops it. So there is no pass to catch.

[daloonieshaman]

thank you for your points
you missed one

if the D6 roll for a pass is 1

no worries play it your way

[Greyhound]

thank you for your points
you missed one

if the D6 roll for a pass is 1

no worries play it your way

I appreciate your interpretation but at best you are highlighting that the rules contradicts itself when it forbids you catch a bouncing ball.

Now if I get you right you are saying:
1) the thrower actually does a pass
2) he rolls a fumble and it's still a pass
3) the ball lands in the thrower square (extrapolation which I'll accept for the sake of this discussion)
4) the ball then bounces.

So if I read you correctly you would want to use diving catch to catch the ball before it bounces on the feet of the thrower?
Or after it bounced and cleared his square?

[daloonieshaman]

before it hits the ground in the throwers square
once it hits it bounces out of his square then he cannot use DC to catch it (but if it bounces to him he may "normal" catch it)

1)Pass
2)Fumble rolled
3)Adjacent DC attempts to catch ball
4)If not caught bounces from throwers square
5)can be "normal" caught if it bounces in a players square
6)ball comes to rest (held or empty square)
7)turnover

safe throw
it is still a pass and consumes your pass action but he keeps the ball and the fumble is not a turnover

[Greyhound]

Gotcha,

let me explain where I think you missed a step:

1)Pass
2)Fumble rolled
3)Adjacent DC attempts to catch ball

Step 3 is incorrect because, even in your interpretation that the ball is about to land as in a "pass" the diving catch clearly specifies:

the player can attempt to catch any pass, kick off or crowd throw-in, but
not bouncing ball, that would land in an empty square in one of his tackle
zones as if it had landed in his own square without leaving his current
square.

So yes to "any pass" but this is not an empty square, since there is the thrower on that square.

Are we both on same page now?

[daloonieshaman]

yes missed the empty square

[alternat]

gents, seems to me that you are all forgetting the very definition og "bouncing ball", settled on page 13 (9 on CRP doument):

"If the ball is dropped or not caught, or the ball bounces to a square with a Prone or Stunned player, or a player is pushed to or lands in the ball's square, or the square where a thrown ball lands is unoccupied (or is occupied by a Prone or Stunned player) then it will bounce."

I think this answers all the questions regarding the topic.

[Greyhound]

it did answer mine, but daloonieshaman has hypothesised that before the ball bounces there was a subjective pass where the ball leaves the hand of the thrower and lands on the square where the thrower is.

This point was subjective, and therefore I did not think I was going to have much success debating its validity so I focused on making sure it was moot (empty square requirement). We had all agreed that once the ball bounces off the thrower's square Diving Catch was useless.