Hypnotic Gaze & Tentacles ... did I get another rule wrong??

Nod_Hero · Post by **Nod_Hero** » Wed Mar 20, 2013 7:15 am

CRP wrote:Tentacles (Mutation)
The player may use this skill when an opposing player attempts to dodge
or leap out of any of his tackle zones.

So following up after a block/blitz away from the Tents player would not force a Tents roll.

Shteve0 · Post by **Shteve0** » Wed Mar 20, 2013 9:09 am

+1 Nod_Hero

petitgars · Post by **petitgars** » Wed Mar 20, 2013 5:10 pm

Thanks

Dzerards · Post by **Dzerards** » Fri Mar 22, 2013 11:28 am

petitgars wrote:
Galak wrote: It should be noted as well ... I also believe that successful Tentacles would not allow a Vampire to bite a Thrall and thus force him to leave the pitch. The logic is exactly the same as the logic I just stated above for Hypnotic Gaze.
If i don't move, and bite an adjacent thrall, does i have a tentacles roll to do?
For exemple:
TVt
T: tentacles
V: vampire
t: thrall

For me, the quote of Galak is for the case : the vamp failed blood lust, first try to dodge/leap, second WANT to bite and adjacent thrall (but CAN NOT because his movement action is ended). But does a vampire had to try a tentacles roll if he only want to bite an adjacent thrall (without any dodge/leap first to bite)? If yes, why?

As long as you don't attempt to leave the square you are in, by either dodging or leaping, there is nothing stopping you biting the thrall adjacent to the vamp. It is only if you attempted to move first and failed the tents roll that you would be unable to snack on your teammate.

sann0638 · Post by **sann0638** » Wed Jul 31, 2013 9:26 am

A bit of rules threadromancy. I incorporated this into the NAF rules clarifications document, posted it on Facebook, and someone immediately came back with p11 of CRP - "a player may do nothing before standing up". Surely HG counts as doing something?

Bakunin · Post by **Bakunin** » Wed Jul 31, 2013 11:00 am

GalakStarscraper wrote:
MKL wrote:I think he's having a little fun at us, still...

Hypnotic Gaze description, page 65:
"...the player may use hypnotic gaze at the end of his Move Action"

List of actions, page 7:
"Move: the player may move a number of squares equal to their Movement Allowance (MA) (including moving zero squares)"
You can have a Move Action where you don't stand up. So yes you can declare a Move Action with a prone Vampire ... roll for Blood Lust ... if you get the 2+ you are definitely able to move 0 squares (ie not stand up) and gaze an adjacent opponent. Vampire reaches out and clutches the ankle of an adjacent opponent ... when he looks down to see what is going on ... bam ... he's hypnotized.

Galak

But On page 11, in the Knock Down and Injuries section it says:
While Prone, the player loses his tackle zones and may do nothing before standing up at a cost of three squares of his movement when he next takes an Action.

So?

edit: sann0638 you beat me too it!

Bakunin · Post by **Bakunin** » Wed Jul 31, 2013 11:05 am

But under the skills section p.23 it says (6.: Only Extraordinary skills work when a player is prone or stunned.

sann0638 · Post by **sann0638** » Wed Jul 31, 2013 11:09 am

The plot thickens...

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Wed Jul 31, 2013 3:13 pm

Page 23 overrides page 11.

Tom

Bakunin · Post by **Bakunin** » Thu Aug 01, 2013 10:08 am

GalakStarscraper wrote:Page 23 overrides page 11.

Tom

Hey Tom sorry for all the stupid rule questions, but I have one more.

---

Following the same logic and reading the foul rules on p23

Quote:
... one player per turn is allowed to take a Foul Action. This allows the player to move a number of squares equal to his MA and then make a foul against an opposing player who is Prone or Stunned and in an adjacent square. Other players that are adjacent to the victim must assist the player making the foul, and each extra player adds 1 to the Armour roll. ... No player [...] may assist a foul if he is [...] not standing.

What I read from this, and following the ruling and wording from the Hypno Gaze, then the Fouling Player himself does not have to be standing. He can be prone, and stay prone - if there is a prone opposing player next to him.

So is this right.

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Thu Aug 01, 2013 1:43 pm

Page 23 only addresses Extraordinary skills .... not Actions. So no ... you cannot Foul while Prone/Stunned because of the rules on page 11.

Tom

landrover · Post by **landrover** » Thu Aug 01, 2013 6:56 pm

Adding to Tom's answer, your quite of the rules: a player may move up to xxx squares then make a foul.

How could a player make a move, then lie down, then foul someone?

Bakunin · Post by **Bakunin** » Thu Aug 01, 2013 7:43 pm

GalakStarscraper wrote:Page 23 overrides page 11.

Tom

But:

http://www.fumbbl.com/index.php?name=PN ... 385#437385

"Hi Guys ... I know I'm retired from the gig of BB rules writer from GW. I'm happy to give you my thoughts if you have question and you can take it for what it is worth.

I spent 5 years trying to find all the rules intersections and either remove them or clarify them but there are a lot of possible rule intersections in this game. (like Apothecary use on a KO'd Ball and Chain player ... even I'm not sure what happens with that still as it was brought up just a few months ago).

Anyway on this topic f_alk is right. I had missed the text on page 11 that said "may do nothing" and instead was focused on the text on Page 23 "Only Extraordinary skills work when a player is Prone or Stunned."

Looking back over the text I would have to agree that page 11 is the superceding text in this case. Page 23 allows passive Extraordinary skills to still be in effect like Distrubing Presense and all the Negatraits (Take Root, Wild Animal, Bonehead, Blood Lust, etc.) In this case using the Extraordinary skill Hypnotic Gaze while Prone would definitely be "doing something" as you are actively declaring and even rolling dice for it so I cannot see it falling into the category of passive.

As a result ... with Shraaaag's comment on the text I missed I concur with him that Hypnotic Gaze may not be used while Prone.

If you ever need a quick opinion ... happy to give one ... just email me impactminiatures@gmail.com and give me a link to the thread and I'll do my best to give you my thoughts. In a game as complex as BB I might swing and miss from time to time but since I actually had to retype a lot of that book I know where most the rule clarifications are.

Thanks,
Tom/Galak"

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Thu Aug 01, 2013 10:03 pm

Definitely cannot foul while Prone/Stunned.

I would have to say HGaze while Prone/Stunned is a big toss up. It really matters if you think 23 overrides 11 or 11 overrides 23. Its one of those crossroads and even after reading what I wrote before ... I have to agree that I can disagree with even myself on this one.

Its a serious grey area and there is no definitive on this one.

Tom

daloonieshaman · Post by **daloonieshaman** » Fri Aug 02, 2013 5:23 am

GalakStarscraper wrote:Definitely cannot foul while Prone/Stunned.

I would have to say HGaze while Prone/Stunned is a big toss up. It really matters if you think 23 overrides 11 or 11 overrides 23. Its one of those crossroads and even after reading what I wrote before ... I have to agree that I can disagree with even myself on this one.

Its a serious grey area and there is no definitive on this one.

Tom

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