Question on Frenzy skill...

SixFootDwarf · Post by **SixFootDwarf** » Mon Jun 17, 2002 8:38 pm

Nope...the new version states that you don't have to use a skill or trait if you don't want, Piep. You don't have to apply Strong Arm or use your Thick Skull either...though who on Earth wouldn't?

Though I do agree that if a Frenzier gets a push back after blitzing, he should HAVE to GFI to throw the 2nd block. That's the price you pay for getting a second shot at the guy.

I think it's more of a question for Commissioners than it is for the BBRC. IMO it's not really significant enough to warrant "official" clarification. A House Rule could cover it.

Piepgrass · Post by **Piepgrass** » Mon Jun 17, 2002 8:46 pm

ok, seems i made a mistake.

Must be because we play it that way in the league.

Have to disagree on the GFI with frenzy thou. I think it is penalty enough that you are forced to follow up no matter whetter you get hikm down. But as you say that is easy enough to settle with houserules in the different leagues.

REgards
Poul

Sputnik · Post by **Sputnik** » Tue Jun 18, 2002 1:51 pm

Hi!

And I thought you MUST use your traits. What about bone-head then or wild animal?

I don't have to use bone-head? Doesn't sound right to me, but maybe I am mixing things up...

Consequently I would say you have to block with frency, but you don't have to GFI.

Sputnik

Anthony_TBBF · Post by **Anthony_TBBF** » Tue Jun 18, 2002 2:16 pm

Those are Racial Characteristics, yoo don't have a choice there

Sputnik · Post by **Sputnik** » Tue Jun 18, 2002 3:03 pm

...and I knew I missed something

.

Thanks, Anthony!

High & Mighty · Post by **High & Mighty** » Tue Jun 18, 2002 5:51 pm

From LRB1.1
Frenzy (General Trait)
A player with Frenzy must always follow an opponent up if they
push them back. In addition, if a frenzied player pushes back an
opponent without knocking them over, then they must follow up
the opponent and then throw another block at them, which is
worked out using the normal rules. Frenzy is not used with
secret weapon attacks or any other kind of attack other than a
straightforward normal block! Note that these changes mean
that a frenzied player can now only throw ONE additional block
per team turn, no matter what the result of the second block.
Also note that if the second block pushes the opposing player
back then the frenzied player must still follow up.

So then if you can choose to throw a frenzy block and a non-frenzy block, then the second sentence would need to be changed to say:

In addition, if a frenzied player pushes back an
opponent without knocking them over, then they MAY follow up
the opponent and then throw another block at them...

Is that right?

plasmoid · Post by **plasmoid** » Tue Jun 18, 2002 6:31 pm

I'm with high and mighty I think

Sure, the rule that traits must be used is gone.
This brings us back to the default that you don't have to use a skill - unless the skill states that you must.

AFAIK, this goes for 2 skills (traits): Frenzy and Stand Firm.

Frenzy states that a player with (not using) the skill must block again if he gets a pushback.

Stand Firm (I believe) states that you can never be pushed back. I think that that takes away your ability to turn it off.

Martin

Piepgrass · Post by **Piepgrass** » Tue Jun 18, 2002 7:09 pm

Since thats the way i thought i was, i will join plasmoid in this argumentation.

Poul

Deathwing · Post by **Deathwing** » Tue Jun 18, 2002 7:48 pm

Uh oh! Guys, this is one of those situations where the wording may not be as precise as it could be but the intent is obvious.
You can't choose not to use Frenzy and therefore only throw one block. Reading it that 'Frenzy is optional' is leaning towards 'rules lawyering' territory.
Surely it's apparent that this is something that was missed in the change from 3e through 4e to 2k1??
Common sense gentlemen please!

Post by **Thadrin** » Tue Jun 18, 2002 7:57 pm

You HAVE to follow up...but I've never even considered that you would be forced to GFI for that second block...I've certainly never played it that way.
As far as I'm concerned if the first block uses up my last square of movement then frenzy doesn't come into play. A cunning coach could use that to his advantage of course...

Piepgrass · Post by **Piepgrass** » Tue Jun 18, 2002 8:04 pm

I have done that on several blitzmoves. Sometimes it pays off to make a detour on the way to the target to avoid th enasty 2.nd block that frenzy would otherwise force you to do.

Poul

High & Mighty · Post by **High & Mighty** » Tue Jun 18, 2002 8:19 pm

Yes plasmoid, that's what I intended to say (not very eloquently). You have to use Frenzy if you have frenzy and throw a bock, but I am pretty sure you don't have to GFI after you run out of movement.

Nagash · Post by **Nagash** » Wed Jun 19, 2002 6:47 am

Piepgrass wrote:I have done that on several blitzmoves. Sometimes it pays off to make a detour on the way to the target to avoid th enasty 2.nd block that frenzy would otherwise force you to do.

Poul

I´m quite sure that the intention with Frenzy was exactly the opposite the way you choose to play it - that you in always HAVE to make two block rolls, whether in a blitz or block action.... thereby also HAVING to "go for it" to make the last block ....

well .... let´s see when the final rules are released - thx for answering.... clearly I´m not the only one in doubt about Frenzy.....

Nagash

Post by **DoubleSkulls** » Wed Jun 19, 2002 8:28 am

I've come up against this problem and my opponent convinced me of his argument -

Frenzy has nothing to do with movement anymore. The 2nd block does not use any movement or require GFI's. You just get a 2nd block for free.

I read the description and I can't find anything in it to disagree with his interpretation. Its not that much of an additional advantage.

Ian

christer · Post by **christer** » Wed Jun 19, 2002 9:43 am

OK, so clearly there is need to clarify the frenzy skill wording...

An "official" take from a Rulez Guru would be highly appreciated.

-- Christer