Throwing Goblins (everyone must be sick of this topic)

[Rodge]

By the way
get 2 Trolls and really drive yourself crazy
The Glory of the Gobbo is the One Turn Touchdown
Pick up the ball 3+
Move and often go for it to 2+, 2+ hand off 3+
RS on the Troll 2+
AH 2+
Throw Short 3+
Land in empty Square 4+
run For the TD (and usually have to GFI) 2+, 2+
no problem 10 dice rolls
your opponent's face when it works PRICELESS

I played a goblin player last week in our local league.
This is pretty much exactly what happened against me, at 2:0 up on turn 15 I setup to kickoff and put my players fairly high up the pitch as i intented to go looking for casualties the next turn. You can imagine my look of shock when he passed roll after roll (with the same dice I was struggling to roll more than a 2 with!), then launched a goblin behind my defensive line (so he didn't even need to roll any dodges) and ran in a touchdown.

The fun of bloodbowl, but a lesson that's definitely well learned!

[Dzerards]

By the way
get 2 Trolls and really drive yourself crazy
The Glory of the Gobbo is the One Turn Touchdown
Pick up the ball 3+
Move and often go for it to 2+, 2+ hand off 3+
RS on the Troll 2+
AH 2+
Throw Short 3+
Land in empty Square 4+
run For the TD (and usually have to GFI) 2+, 2+
no problem 10 dice rolls
your opponent's face when it works PRICELESS

You should have seen the look on my face when my opponent did this to me three times in a row in one game!

Odds of success somewhere between 3000 to 1 and 1000 to 1 depending on if you have a reroll and where you need to use it.

[alternat]

You should have seen the look on my face when my opponent did this to me three times in a row in one game!

you should definitely improve your deep defence.

[Dzerards]

You should have seen the look on my face when my opponent did this to me three times in a row in one game!

you should definitely improve your deep defence.

Seriously? Somebody pulls of a one in a thousand+ series of dice rolls and it's my fault cause of my bad set up?

Maybe the last turn of a half you can have all your players back, but the rest of the game you are just taking the pressure off and allowing the opposition greater probably of making a two turn touchdown instead of a 7% (ish) probability of a one turn touchdown.

[alternat]

once is business
twice is good luck
thrice is awful defence. you were just unprepared to the tactic and let you opponent do what he wishes.

at least there should have been a tackle zone or two on the troll to improve the chance of a fumble, and maybe you scored too quickly (your opponents were gobbos, I suppose: orcs have much better weapons to score) to give him the chance of another drive.

[Dzerards]

once is business
twice is good luck
thrice is awful defence. you were just unprepared to the tactic and let you opponent do what he wishes.

at least there should have been a tackle zone or two on the troll to improve the chance of a fumble, and maybe you scored too quickly (your opponents were gobbos, I suppose: orcs have much better weapons to score) to give him the chance of another drive.

Awful defence my arse. That's like saying I'm a bad poker player after I go all-in before the flop with pocket aces three times in a row and get beat by 7-3, 8-4, and 7-2! (I actually did get called and beat by 7-3 suited the last time I pushed all-in with aces before the flop. The flop was 7-3-3, turn was another 7 and the river the final 3. Neither off us were short stacked either!)

The game broke down like this. I kicked to him, he didn't try the TTM right away and I used my blitz on the chainsaw cause you kinda have to. So his second turn, hand-off, throw, land, 1 GFI touchdown. Odds of success 11% without a rr and 12% up to 16% with rr depending on where you have to use it. Kick-off, I score, him to receive again.

I have the kick skill and go deep left but the scatter and the high kick result and a catch mean 2GFI, hand-off, throw, land, 1 GFI touchdown. Odds of success 7% without a rr and 7% up to 10% with rr. Kick-off, I score in last turn of half, I receive start second half, score, kick to him.

Again bad scatter but this time its pick up, 2GFI, hand-off, throw, land, 1 GFI touchdown. Odds of success 4% without a rr and 5% up to 7% with rr.

You put all those probabilities together and you get a range of success for that sequence of events between 0.03% and 0.11%. And that doesn't even include the probabilities on the scatter on kick off or any other actions he took in the turn that risked a turnover.

As for defence, I doubt many coaches would have passed up a blitz on a chainsaw and hit a gobbo who had a 16% max chance of scoring. The second time I had two diving tackle skinks deep and the third time I had 4 diving tackle skinks back but to no avail. And as for putting a troll in tackle zones, baring a blitz or perfect defence kick-off result I can't put a tackle zone on the troll unless my opponent places him in one, if he even puts him on the LOS at all. Plus he used his inducements to get three bribes and used them all for his fanatic which he only fielded on offence, so crowding the LOS would have just given away too many free strength 7 hits. Plus I had badly hurt the trolls three times on my drives and each time they regenerated.

Thankfully on this fourth offence the kick-off landed out off hand-off range and I finished off his last troll to make sure there wouldn't be anymore one-turn-wonders in his fifth. The game ended 5-3 and I won the 32 player league undefeated and, gobbos aside, I never conceded more than 1 touchdown per game.

If anyone has got any advice on how to do things better, I'd love to hear it, but short of putting your whole team across your endzone (which just allows your opponent an easy (easier at any rate) 2-3 turn touchdown instead) or flooding the LOS, (which won't help if he puts the troll one square back) there is no way to defend against a 1turn TTM if the dice are against you. Is there anywhere you can kick to with the kick skill that would guarantee both no chance of going out for a touchback on one side and not being within hand-off range on the other?

In fact, given the olds, I would say you are a bad coach if you didn't set up in a way to encourage your opponent to attempt a 1 turn TTM (except of course for the last turn of a half).

Anyway, my long winded defence of my coaching ability to one side, has any one beat 3 1-turn TTM touchdowns in a row? I got to say it is the funniest thing in BB to see it work once, no matter what side you're on. To see it happen 3 times in one game is special. Never mind the look on my face, I think I fell off my chair the second time!

[daloonieshaman]

There is not a lot you can do against a 1TT when his scatters go right. Mine never to seem to go in the direction I want even if I throw into a crowd of 20 players. Burn his dice ....

[Pagan]

There is not a lot you can do against a 1TT when his scatters go right. Mine never to seem to go in the direction I want even if I throw into a crowd of 20 players. Burn his dice ....

Send your Juggernauting, Clawing, Mighty Blowing, Jump Upping Minotaur after the Troll on the next turn solves that problem.

[alternat]

that's what I said.

first of all, you scored too fast. If you know that he is able to score in one turn, don't kick him. Keep the ball and hit, hit, hit harder and harder. Gobbos broke easily.
you had to let him score his first TD and stall up to 8th turn to score your first.
then, stall again up to 8th before you score your second.
he had just one turn to try and score his TD to tie the match, with a (hopefully) reduced man... er... goblinpower.

about the chainsaw, if you don't let your opponent the chance of field it in defence (he didn't, you said), that's a major reason not to let him have the ball anymore.
About the fanatic, please, leave him alone midfield and stop worrying about it.

Man, you have six ST4 guys and possibly one ST5 to protect the skinks (DT skinks!!! there's no better way to protect a cage from stunties with an outer ring of saurus and an inner ring of diving tackler) and beat those greenskins off the pitch! When all the remainder of his team are two trolls and a bunch of secret weapons, how do you think he one-turns?

[Dzerards]

Seriously dude, you are just trying to wind me up now aren't you? Because there is no way you are seriously suggesting stalling and forcing him to do one TTM 1turner in the last turn of the game at 4% to 7% probability of success to tie the match is better than just scoring every chance you get and forcing him to attempt the TTM 1turner 4-5 times over the course of the match at a probability of, say 5% each time to the power of 4; roughly 1 in 160,000.

So do it your way and tie every 25th game or mine and only tie every 160,000th, plus the extra SPP for scoring.

As for taking out the trolls, with regeneration, statistically 5 drives gives you a better chance to take them out permanently than 2. I had to Cas the ones in my game five times to get them both off the pitch (as a group that is). Same with the Gobbos, you only need, what, one troll and 4-5 gobbo to pull of a 1turner (and a lot of luck!) Hell you can do it with one troll and 3 gobbos! With only two drives you can't be sure every gobbo you break will be a cas and not a KO.

Look, if you are just looking a rise out of me, in future just go "Dude, gobbos put 3 TTM touchdowns past you! You suck balls! Go play tiddlywinks!" or something. There is no come back to that.

Or if you are just trying to preach poorly-thought-out advise, by all means continue, that's what forums are for after all, but could you please be consistent in future? All this "get everyone back, no wait, put everyone on the LOS, no wait, stall! That way he only has to get lucky once to tie the game instead of 4 times!" is getting tiring. Or you could just stop trying to find fault and go "3 TTM touchdowns in a row, wow, awesome! Isn't this game brilliant sometimes!"

[GalakStarscraper]

Seriously dude, you are just trying to wind me up now aren't you? Because there is no way you are seriously suggesting stalling and forcing him to do one TTM 1turner in the last turn of the game at 4% to 7% probability of success to tie the match is better than just scoring every chance you get and forcing him to attempt the TTM 1turner 4-5 times over the course of the match at a probability of, say 5% each time to the power of 4; roughly 1 in 160,000.

Depends on the ability of the stunty coach.

Not sure if was trying to wind you up ... but I took Halflings to the Chromatic Cup tournament a couple weeks ago. 5 game touranment. Won 3 and lost 2. I only lost to the 2 teams that stalled scoring to deny me a response. The 3 teams that played without stalling I beat.

Not saying it related perfectly to your discussion Gerald ... but just pointing out that just because they are a joke team doesn't mean they are a joke in everyone's hands. I was only 1 CAS from tying most CAS caused for the tournament as well.

Galak

[alternat]

Seriously dude, you are just trying to wind me up now aren't you?

I'm not. really.
and, please, don't throw me back your frustration. You're not less upwinding that I am.

Because there is no way you are seriously suggesting stalling and forcing him to do one TTM 1turner in the last turn of the game at 4% to 7% probability of success to tie the match is better than just scoring every chance you get and forcing him to attempt the TTM 1turner 4-5 times over the course of the match at a probability of, say 5% each time to the power of 4; roughly 1 in blah blah blah...

I fear that you biggest mistake, apart of strategy, is to rely on statistics.
yes, TTM is a higly unlikely fact, but your "one in a million" was demonstrated as possbile directly in front of your eyes.
what I learned in all these years I played is that there is no place in the world where Murphy's Laws apply than a Blood Bowl field.

I may agree that a 5-3 winning is better than a 2-1, mosty in respect of players' experience, but you have to agree that if your opponent hasn't the ball, he cannot score (unless he steal it from you), and a winning is always a winning.

you surely got annoyed by the repeated (and absurd) luck of your opponent, but this does not cancel the fact that you just feared him, refused to put a pressure on him and let him play the way HE wanted, and not the way YOU should have wanted.
You don't even TRY to stall: just run and score, run and score, run and score. And your opponent pieces are still alive to hit yours (not very easy, anyway) and being thrown downfield with the ball. Next time try to beat them on your field: hit, hunt the gobbos, keep the ball secure and remove some greenskin from the pitch before you score, and then tell me if it was easier for you or not to win.

And, by the way, I never advise you to crowd the LOS: just to put one or two TZ on the trolls. If you let the trolls free to move, they do. If the troll has someone close, he has to decide whether to punch him or throw gobbos with a minus on the fumble. What do you think he choose?
And what if HE stalled? Were you able to score in one turn to get a tie or you would have a 2-1 loss?

And, last advice, next time, try not to underestimate you opponent just because you can score in two turns and he should not.

[daloonieshaman]

Stunty coaches do not understand stats, do not believe in them, and refuse to accept any argument that includes them. They have NO bearing in a game. They do not exit.
Once you grasp that concept as an opposing coach you will change your outlook all together.

"There is no impossible if there is a possibility." [drb]

[Stout Youngblood]

Stunty coaches do not understand stats, do not believe in them, and refuse to accept any argument that includes them. They have NO bearing in a game. They do not exit.
Once you grasp that concept as an opposing coach you will change your outlook all together.

"There is no impossible if there is a possibility." [drb]

Damn straight!!! If we believed in stats then we wouldn't play stunties.

[Smeborg]

Stunty coaches do not understand stats, do not believe in them, and refuse to accept any argument that includes them. They have NO bearing in a game. They do not exit.
Once you grasp that concept as an opposing coach you will change your outlook all together.

"There is no impossible if there is a possibility." [drb]

Damn straight!!! If we believed in stats then we wouldn't play stunties.

I believe there is a point at which every team should be played in this spirit.