Heckler

[Grumbledook]

unless i'm mistaken those are all extraordinary skills apart from frenzy, hence my regeneration stance

[Greyhound]

agreed but we're now paraphrasing and assuming a lot: some extraordinary skills must be used... it's not even all of them.

surely over the years this came up! Which skills MUST be used and which MAY be used. Where is it written in the rules? It would help the Heckler ruling.

[trentusdementus]

agreed but we're now paraphrasing and assuming a lot: some extraordinary skills must be used... it's not even all of them.

surely over the years this came up! Which skills MUST be used and which MAY be used. Where is it written in the rules? It would help the Heckler ruling.

Where is it written in the rules?

How many times have you read the skill descriptions? If you're like me, hundreds of times.
Each skill has a description of how it is used.

I'm at a loss and simply don't understand your question.

[Greyhound]

Ok sorry if I wasn't clear.

I just read the rules again and this is what I found:

Unless otherwise stated in the skill description [...] Skill use it not mandatory.

So I read Frenzy and I can clearly read that it's stated in the skill description that I have to use it.

Looking at Wild Animal, I can't find the use of "MUST" like I found in Frenzy of Loner, all I can see is "Roll a d6". The use of the imperative must stand for the necessity in this case.

for example Multiblock, clearly shows you have an option:

a player who is adjacent to at least two opponents may choose to throw blocks against two of them

So based on all this I went looking for the use of must, affirmative, or imperative form.

Prehensile tail, for instance MUST be used. Wild Animal is obviously a skill you are forced to use and is not stating as clearly as Prehensile Tail that you are forced to use the skill... something I would never have remembered unless I read the skill in detail looking for the wording

To represent this, opposing players must subtract 1 from the D6

Looking at Guard, the wording is as imperative as Wild Animal.

A player with this skill assists an offensive or defensive block even if he is in another player's tackle zone

For Block the statement is allowing, in the text, the possibility of not being used:

The Block skill, if used, ...

So overall my question was: how do you differentiate the skills that have to be used from the ones that don't? If the form of "roll a D6" or "A player with this skill assists ..." means that there is no option and therefore is considered as an implied MUST, then in this case I read that these skills must be used:
- Always Hungry
- Animosity
- Ball & Chain
- Big Hand (I'm surprised I would have allowed this as optional)
- Blood Lust
- Bonehead (this rule uses MUST whereas Wild Animal didn't for some reason)
- Chainsaw
- Claw (again, big surprise, but the rule is as imperative as Wild animal)
- Decay
- Dirty Player (??? But I guess you can decide not to break armour by choosing the Injury Roll to allow you the flexibility of changing the result)
- Disturbing Presence
- Fan Favourite
- Foul Appearance
- Frenzy
- Guard (the biggest surprise really)
- Loner
- Mighty Blow (Like dirty Player, you can control the use of the skill by switching the +1 to whichever, giving you a way to work around the skill should you want not to break armour, however this skill reads as "mandatory" as wild animal

Add 1 to any Armour or Injury roll...

- Nerves of Steel
- No Hands
- Prehensile Tail
- Really Stupid (again the use of Must is re-assuring)
- Regeneration (the point of contention in this thread)
- Safe Throw (again ??? no mention of may/could/is allowed, just straight statements)
- Secret Weapon
- Sneaky Git (you must stay on the pitch apparently)
- Strip Ball
- Stunty (a mix of both, the skill is a mix of must/may)
- Tackle (I always played it as optional!)
- Take Root
- Thick Skull
- Titchy (mix of may/must)
- Two heads
- Wild Animal

I'm confused and I feel like the straight reading of these skills is not the right approach.

so my question to the community is: how do you know a skill MUST be used, and this obviously has a big impact on the Heckler.

[plasmoid]

From memory, very few skills must be used.
Only the negaskills (including loner), and frenzy, and the injury modifier from stunty.

Cheers
Martin

However, a heckler preventing someone from regenerating seems so wrong. But I'm guessing the heckler is wearing garlic

[Datademonen]

There is no arguing that that it doesnt feel right that you can cancel regeneration, but it wouldn't be the first thing i Bloodbowl that didnt feel right:-)

Going by the wording of the skill, doesnt make it much better,
if we look at horns and bighand.

"One of the player’s hands has grown monstrously large, yet remained
completely functional. The player ignores modifier(s) for enemy tackle
zones or Pouring Rain
weather when he attempts to pick up the ball."

No may of ifs, here

"A player with Horns may use them to butt an opponent. Horns adds 1 to
the player’s Strength for any block(s) he makes during a Blitz Action."

So heckler cancels horns, but not bighand. Both are very much a part of the players appearence,
One could argue that it is easy to forget to use your horn, but its also easy to forget which hand is large and use the other...

[Greyhound]

Glad to see I haven't missed something obvious. So tackle, optional yes/no and wildanimal ?

Why one and not the other?

[Grumbledook]

this was my point, there is no where in the rules clearly stating this

if you have to use loner I can't see why you would ignore regeneration

they are both physically part of the player rather than a skill like block or tackle

as plasmoid says heckler negating regeneration just seems odd


my original stance that adding the "cards" back into bloodbowl was a mistake is still correct as far as I am concerned ;]

you raise a good point about the mutations as well, it is a big can of worms with no clear answer

[Darkson]

they are both physically part of the player rather than a skill like block or tackle

I'd argue that point, as Loner can be lost (buying a Journeyman).

Personally, if the rulebook is unclear (which by going from the posts here, it is), I'd just go through it skill by skill and get the commish and/or TO to rule on it. If there's no commish/TO, decide with your opponent. If you can't decide, roll a D6.

[Darkson]

P.S. When anyone posts a question about a card, please put where the card is - I spend ages looking for them.

[nazgob]

its page 55, in the Miscellaneous Mayhem deck.

[Grumbledook]

P.S. When anyone posts a question about a card, please put where the card is - I spend ages looking for them.

you could use the find or search function for the card name ;]

where is darkson when you need him to tell someone to use that!

course that extra info doesn't hurt to have anyway

[Darkson]

you could use the find or search function for the card name ;]

Funnily enough, my (real) book doesn't come with a search function, and they're not listed individually in the index.
But thanks for the post though.

[Grumbledook]

luddite

[Greyhound]

at the end of a day a Heckler is distracting so even though you keep the horns you can't concentrate and hit right, or the ball still slip of your big hand because you are distracted and can't focus...

I think I'd rule that negatrait are not cancelled (including Stunty and Titchy drawback) but the benefit of any skill is ignored (including the benefit of Stunty and Titchy) that makes it fairly easy to rule, and makes the card quiet good...