Was: Claw Poll - Now: Dice vs RNG

[Buggrit]

To quote the aliens from Toy Story...

Ooooooooooooooooooooohh, The Claw!!!

[Pagan]

Not The Craw, The Craw!

[Caelwyn]

I think there is a serious issue that hasn't been resolved.

I'm not talking about claw and mighty blow.

I'm talking about affect vs effect

[Duke Jan]

Just lost 440k worth of players to claw/MB can I change my choice?

Nah, it was good to weed out the weak, last match before the play-offs...

[Wanchor]

Bandwagoning. The Claw is the Law.

[Void]

The pool is mission an option "Bring back Razor Sharp Claws"!

[Trollblanc]

I'm puzzled.. why is an option "Keep everything the same except make claw 8+" there? I thought it already IS 8+? (If you roll an 8 or more you break armor - so what is this option good for?)
Or is MB already included in the answer - what would it make very misleading regarding the question

(I got 2 Big Guys with pact cas'ed yesterday and voted "leave it be" btw. I'm rather new and of course the thing is annoying but I think the BBRC has been there for some time and did choose that stuff for a reason)

[WhatBall]

This issue isn't Claw, it is the combination of skills. To look at each skill independently and say "No problem here, lalalala", avoids the real issue. It looks like some combinations weren't thought out or tested enough with a large enough player base. With Cyanide, and now FUMBBL on the CRP rules, the serious issues with this combo are beginning to raise their ugly head. The Claw rule isn't too bad, it is the MB stacking, and the the worst new rule, rerolling injuries with PO, that causes the issues. The new JU rule is really not helpful either, giving a +2 on a single 6-sided die roll is nuts. It turns joe average into an uber-Elf.

Essentially everyone on the pitch is now a Halfling AND you get to reroll the injuries, often with a +1 with the MB still available! How is a combo that turns every other team into a Tier 3 'joke' team not broken? (And please don't counter with a build a 'Rock' team to counter the 'Scissor' team argument. BBdeserves more than to be an elaborate R/P/S farce.)

With FUMBBL there are (extremely cheap) Marauder only Pact teams with MB/PO/Claw (and JU on doubles) slicing and dicing everyone at low TV, as well as some killer Chaos combos that can keep a very low TV.


I respect all the hard work that has been done by everyone in the BBRC, but they, like us, are human too and make mistakes. This "combination" of little mistakes has created a very broken aspect of the game.

[GalakStarscraper]

Go to +/- 10% ELO matching with a 500k window for TV and you'd find this problem solves itself with the other inducements that are in there. Both FUMBBL and MM have limiting factors on match-up that change the dynamics of the built in safeties.

Tom

[spubbbba]

Man when did FUMBBL coaches become such a bunch of whiney crybabies?

We were in danger of ending with a 400 page monster thread like the Cyanide forum had if it Woodstock hadn't locked it.

Face it, sometimes you will end up against an opponent who has a team that you will struggle against. You can either learn to adapt and give yourself the best chance against them, conceed and make a clone of that team yourself or go complain on internet forums despite the fact that the rules won't be changing for a very long time.

[Steam Ball]

Go to +/- 10% ELO matching with a 500k window for TV

Could you explain that ELO thing? Thanks.

And yeah, when you read/hear that the way to play Halfling or Goblin is to trim TV and get 400K of inducements (and have fun, winning is just a low priority), and then the system disallows that, things are going to be nasty (no wins, but no fun either). You could even say they stuck to TV only and forgot now it's base TV plus floating bonus. Anyway, some FUMBBL divisions will let inducements work as designed, just avoid the ones where pure base TV is the only thing used (yeah, I know Blackbox allows inducements, but really small range).

[GalakStarscraper]

Go to +/- 10% ELO matching with a 500k window for TV

Could you explain that ELO thing? Thanks.

Point ranking for winning. So the system pairs up winning coaches against winning coaches as long as they are within 500k of each other.

Some coaches can do well with a all Claw team but the majority of the data so far shows that isn't a strategy that wins games. So those coaches float to the bottom and the coaches that actually play to score TDs rather than CAS float above them and you seperate the folks actually playing the game from Jimmy wants to hurt something.

There will be coaches with Claw heavy teams that do well ... no doubt ... but that is because they are good coaches not because Claw or PoN or MBlow is that good even in combo.

Just my opinion from all the information I've seen to date from folks that want to show the numbers rather than scream from soapboxes.

Tom

[Steam Ball]

AAh, ok, thanks... I think FUMBBL's Blackbox uses plain TV number with a low % diff limit (+/-10%?), so you have winners with high TV playing destroyers with high TV, and rarely get any inducement, at best in the 100K range.

Allowing 500K max TV diff, and matching per skill level (or style, as that would be related to some degree if things polarize score-vs-kill) would indeed be an option, and it sounds nicer. Maybe they could start Orangebox, where safety levels are standardize across the field for both teams (and real colour of blackboxes ). Do they know about this pair making style or do not care?

[GalakStarscraper]

AAh, ok, thanks... I think FUMBBL's Blackbox uses plain TV number with a low % diff limit (+/-10%?), so you have winners with high TV playing destroyers with high TV, and rarely get any inducement, at best in the 100K range.

Allowing 500K max TV diff, and matching per skill level (or style, as that would be related to some degree if things polarize score-vs-kill) would indeed be an option, and it sounds nicer. Maybe they could start Orangebox, where safety levels are standardize across the field for both teams (and real colour of blackboxes ). Do they know about this pair making style or do not care?

It has been discussed at length on the Cyanide forums.

Tom

[Steam Ball]

Uh? FUMBBL discusion at Cyanide forums?