Frenzy & bonus square?

[Digger Goreman]

Page 14 of the LRB6.0 rulebook: "Skills:" "Unless stated otherwise in the skill description, you never have to use a skill just because the player's got it...."

You must use Frenzy (p65)
It is optional to use Sprint (p67)

[Smurf]

It contradicts frenzy.

You must throw a second block unless you run out of GFIs Hence if you have a skill sprint, then you must throw a second block because you can. The skill takes over the decision making.

I know it's when of these 'when it happens scenarios'.

[Corvidius]

Then you do not have to GFI at all as it is also optional?

Sorry this is where rules lawyerism is about to contradict the meaning of the skill.

It could be that frenzy negates the optional use of sprint becuase you have to GFI if you can!

They should have thought about this in CRP as it was brought up in 5th and not post script it.

Frenzy clearly states that you must if you can. Thus removing the option of not using a skill.

Skill use is optional. GFIs are mandatory as described in Frenzy. However the Sprinter Trollslayer can only GFI twice like everyone else until he chooses to use Sprint. If he uses Sprint he can't use his extra GFI to dodge away for example because Frenzy says he must throw an additional block if he can.

I don't know if that's clear in the process of logic, i'm a bit hungover, but it is logical progression. Until a coach chooses to use Sprint he can't GFI 3 times.

[GalakStarscraper]

Nowhere in Frenzy does it say you must use Sprint. You cannot be mandated to use a skill. So if you don't use Sprint ... then the Frenzy player has used ALL his GFI squares when he uses the 2nd one.

Tom

[Smurf]

It still appears rules lawyerish. Why, as other people said, have must emboldened in the frenzy discription. If he can he must.

I know it says skill use is not mandatory...

"if the frenzied player is performing a Blitz Action then he must pay a square of Movement and must make the second block unless he has no further normal movment and cannot Go For it again. (CRP page 65)

Now that is either contradictory, or not open to interpretation. He must throw a second block, the emphasis is on the 'must', that is it is not optional.

When I'm playing a game I'm not telephoning GW support for decisions. IMO this 'must' takes the coach's decision making away from the player when it is activated to block or blitz.

All sprint does is allows for addtional GFI, hence you could and can GFI again.

There are other loop holes which have obvious meanings. Frenzy means you must follow up, but Fend says you don't... Frenzy means you must! Here the Fend skill prevents a follow up. Frenzy does not prevent the use of Sprint.

[sann0638]

He must throw a second block, the emphasis is on the 'must', that is it is not optional.

He cannot go for it again because he is choosing not to use Sprint. Similarly, he could not throw the second block by choosing not to use Jugs v Fend, choose not to throw the second block by choosing to go down instead of using block, and dozens more examples (choosing not to use Tackle, choosing to use Wrestle, choosing a both down instead of push...).

[Digger Goreman]

It still appears rules lawyerish.

Nowhere in Frenzy does it say you must use Sprint. You cannot be mandated to use a skill. So if you don't use Sprint ... then the Frenzy player has used ALL his GFI squares when he uses the 2nd one.
Tom

Smurf... Sir... I respect you have an opinion... however, GalakStarscraper/Tom Anders (and a small handful of others) wrote, received submissions and decided on the rules and interpretations and gave us the LRB6.0 (that the CRaP rules are supposed to imitate).... If anyone can lay claim to rules lawyering... remember that He and They are the rules Judges, in effect.... House rule it if your mates agree... but The Man has answered....

[Smurf]

Well I have had my say.

It appears there should be another FAQ to address some of the issues we come up with on this forum.

[Greyhound]

there is no issue, it looks like everyone here managed to read it clearly.

[B SIDE]

Frenzy is an unusual skill. I think the rules are very clear most of the time, but I can certainly agree that this skill combo deserves a spot on any new FAQ.

[Ulthuan_Express]

You cannot be mandated to use a skill.

Someone cheekily asked me (in my League Commissioner role) if that meant skills of the likes of Bonehead, Really Stupid, Wild Animal and Stunty (on injuries) were included in that rule!

I hit them over the head with a folded-up BB board and no more was said of it.

[lunchmoney]

I hit them over the head with a folded-up BB board and no more was said of it.

Good answer

[DoubleSkulls]

The intent of the skills is exactly as Darkson described. Although Frenzy forces you to GFI, it does not force you to use Sprint. If you want to house rule otherwise fine.

Under the previous of version of frenzy GFIs weren't compulsory, so there was an exploit if you blitzed with a frenzy player so you could waste movement so you'd only make the first hit, and because you'd need to GFI for the 2nd hit you could choose not to. The change was to remove that exploit.

[Ullis]

Sprint is worded to the effect that it seems that there isn't anything optional about it. Foul appearance is another example. But taken together with the rule that skill use is not mandatory, it makes sense as otherwise there woudn't be anything optional about these skills. Maybe not as realistic as possible, I so sympathise with the raving lunatic idea, but this is still a game.

I have to agree with Smurf that just reading the skills it does make sense that the frenzy player should GFI a third time if he has Sprint (but as I stated above, I'm not saying that's how it goes rules wise), and if someone gets this wrong, it's not a very big deal. It's still better to use clear wording instead of convoluted passages filled with if's and unless's.

[Pagan]

Don't see how using the rules as written is 'rules lawyerism'. Sprint does not say it is mandatory to use nor does Frenzy say you must use any skills you have to increase your movement.

No different than a player choosing not to use their Dodge skill so they fall down on the field instead of being in a position to be pushed off the pitch.

Someone cheekily asked me (in my League Commissioner role) if that meant skills of the likes of Bonehead, Really Stupid, Wild Animal and Stunty (on injuries) were included in that rule!

Yes they are included in the rule that if a skill doesn't require you to use it you can choose not to. But reading Bone Head, Really Stupid, and Wild Animal each skills states (must, must, immediately) in their skill description, so no luck getting out of that.