Pick up a ball

[Xeterog]

pg 7 is the turn over rules.

The immediately in the pick up rules is to clarify that, unlike catching a throw or handoff, no matter where the ball ends up , you have suffered a turnover.

back to page 7.
"A coach that suffers a turnover is not allowed to take any further Actions that turn, and any Action being taken ends immediately even if it was partially completed. Make armor and injury rolls for players that were knocked down, and if the ball was dropped then roll to see where it bounces to normally. Stunned players should be turned face up, and then the opposing coach may start to take his turn."

Note that the action doesn't technically end, nor a new turn starts, until the ball comes to rest..and in this situation, it comes to rest in the hands of the moving team's player in the EZ, which triggers another turnover (TD being scored)...so IMO, the TD is scored in the moving team's turn, before the turnover completes.

[alternat]

if I fail to pick up the ball and it scatters on a player, he IS allowed to try and catch it, whether it is my team or opponent's.
Opponent's turn does not start until the ball comes to rest, and this is a point that NO ONE can duscuss, otherwise really strange situations could come off. I really don't care if it is not clearly stated in the "failed pick up" intro in the Turnover list, because is clearly stated in the immediately previous intro "failed catch". Furthermore, in the "Picking up the ball" chapter it is also clearly stated that, fhen the pick up is failed, the ball bounce one square. The Boucing Balls chapter covers all the rules regarding "dropped or not caught" balls, up to the very end of the bouncing procedure. This procedure must be followed every time there is a bouncing ball, so also in case of a failed pick-up.

the "scoring during opponent's turn" chapter says that if a player of my team gain possession* of the ball at any moment during opponent's turn, I score a touchdown. Please, note that the very moment a player of mine holds the ball and the turn was my opponent's, a turnover has already occurred. I scored during my opponent's turn, not in my next, so it just doesn't matter if I have a next turn or not: I just scored.

and yes, I fixed the CRP, because it really looks like the crap needs that fixing.


*the "bal possession" concept would have helped a lot in many cases, if it was implemented as I suggested years ago...

[Smurf]

Doesn't the bounce of the ball have to be resolved before the start of the next turn?

Whilst the player failed to pick it up, tough you got lucky and scored.

Otherwise you negate yours and your opponent's turn.

[Jaque Liquer]

After reading all the points I'm not shure is it a TD or not.
The question is, "scattering of an ball" after an turnover is in your turn or in the beginning of your opponents turn.
I think a Tunrover is an Turn-OVER. No TD.
Scattering the ball, Throw-in ...... is in the beginning of the next turn.

[Rhyoth]

After reading all the points I'm not shure is it a TD or not.
The question is, "scattering of an ball" after an turnover is in your turn or in the beginning of your opponents turn.
I think a Tunrover is an Turn-OVER. No TD.
Scattering the ball, Throw-in ...... is in the beginning of the next turn.

I disagree : the rules are pretty clear here : ball-scattering and armour rolls happen before the opposing coach begins his turn :

"A coach that suffers a turnover is not allowed to take any further Actions that turn, and any Action being taken ends immediately even if it was partially completed. Make armor and injury rolls for players that were knocked down, and if the ball was dropped then roll to see where it bounces to normally. Stunned players should be turned face up, and then the opposing coach may start to take his turn."

The only question here is : do we make those rolls at the end of your turn, or between your turn and your opponent's one ?

Since there is no mention of "a transitionnal phase/turn" or whatsoever, anywhere in the rulebook, then I guess ball-scattering (as well as armour rolls and turning up stunned players) still happen, by default, during (the end of) your turn.

[alternat]

I keep saying that such a case falls in the "TD in opponent's turn" intro.
Otherwise there will never be a TD in opponent's turn, but a TD in between turns.

[Smurf]

After reading all the points I'm not shure is it a TD or not.
The question is, "scattering of an ball" after an turnover is in your turn or in the beginning of your opponents turn.
I think a Tunrover is an Turn-OVER. No TD.
Scattering the ball, Throw-in ...... is in the beginning of the next turn.

I disagree : the rules are pretty clear here : ball-scattering and armour rolls happen before the opposing coach begins his turn :

"A coach that suffers a turnover is not allowed to take any further Actions that turn, and any Action being taken ends immediately even if it was partially completed. Make armor and injury rolls for players that were knocked down, and if the ball was dropped then roll to see where it bounces to normally. Stunned players should be turned face up, and then the opposing coach may start to take his turn."

The only question here is : do we make those rolls at the end of your turn, or between your turn and your opponent's one ?

Since there is no mention of "a transitionnal phase/turn" or whatsoever, anywhere in the rulebook, then I guess ball-scattering (as well as armour rolls and turning up stunned players) still happen, by default, during (the end of) your turn.

It cleary states that the end of turn sequence goes like this:

1. Any of methods that cause a turn over
2. Resolve any armour/injury and bounce ball results
3. Unstun players = end of turn

Otherwise it could be argued that the end of turn caused by a failed block does not need to cause armour/injury rolls because it is no longer my turn in that it happened.

[daloonieshaman]

you guys are in the wrong tree.
the event is not a TD as it is the bottom of the 8th/16th turn and the turn for the offense was over.
now
If it had been say turn 6 then it would have been a TD in your opponents turn 7

[Darkson]

you guys are in the wrong tree.
the event is not a TD as it is the bottom of the 8th/16th turn and the turn for the offense was over.

Wrong - the Turn doesn't end until the ball finishes scattering - see Ryoth's and Surf's posts for the order a TO occurs.

[daloonieshaman]

you guys are in the wrong tree.
the event is not a TD as it is the bottom of the 8th/16th turn and the turn for the offense was over.

Wrong - the Turn doesn't end until the ball finishes scattering - see Ryoth's and Surf's posts for the order a TO occurs.

sorry don't agree on the 8/16 any other turn, yes
see what you want to see but is does not follow the rules for what is an eligible TD

[Grumbledook]

why would it not apply to the last turn in a drive but it would to any other, that makes even less sense ;]

[Buggrit]

Adding in my tuppenth's worth just to muddy the waters a little further...

I have to agree with Darkson, Ryoth & Surf's interpretation. I think what is confusing people is the difference between TURNOVER & END OF TURN...

It seems that maybe a clarification of the way turns end needs to be put into the CRaP so that it states that when you suffer a TURNOVER you complete the armour, bounce, unstun sequence BEFORE the END OF TURN

In this instance the pick up is failed, resulting in a TURN OVER this is not in dispute, but you do still need to finish armour, bounce, unstunning before the END OF TURN and as catching a bouncing ball is not an ACTION (TURNOVER PREVENTS MOVING TEAMS TAKING FURTHER ACTIONS) then as you catch it before the END OF TURN sequence has finished you should score a TD irrespective of which turn the game is on and the TD would be scored in your turn.

[Xeterog]

but..but..but...oh, you mean something like this:

"A coach that suffers a turnover is not allowed to take any further Actions that turn, and any Action being taken ends immediately even if it was partially completed. Make armor and injury rolls for players that were knocked down, and if the ball was dropped then roll to see where it bounces to normally. Stunned players should be turned face up, and then the opposing coach may start to take his turn."

There IS NO IN BETWEEN TURNS. It is either your turn or your opponents turn. Your Turn does NOT END until your opponent's turn BEGINS. If at anytime, during your turn and action is ended and someone has the ball in their possession in the EZ, there is a TD. It's not a TD in your opponents turn, it is a TD in your turn.

[Buggrit]

But, but, but....

That's exactly what I mean! LOL

[Greyhound]

May I point out that in this thread:

viewtopic.php?f=24&t=31543&hilit=between+turn

Tom pointed out that there is such a thing as in between turns...