Piling On and it's possible changes

Grumbledook · Post by **Grumbledook** » Sat Jul 26, 2003 2:39 pm

piling on affects the armour roll so it applies to what you roll for the armour roll

thats how the current rules in the living rulebook work

and we know that makes piling on overpowered hence this thread talking about the changed to it

Darkson · Post by **Darkson** » Sun Jul 27, 2003 4:42 am

Kruppe wrote:On top of that good old commen sense will tell you that otherwise Piling On is way to overpowered.

And since when has common sense been part of GW rules

Cooper · Post by **Cooper** » Thu Jul 31, 2003 10:07 am

Zombie wrote:You'll never see PO RSC minotaurs or rat ogres if PO has to be declared before,

I think i would choose it...It is an easy way to be sure that WA is no problem during your next turn AND gain something in the progress. Sometimes i even use PO under these rules if i allready broke the armour.
W

Sproutman · Post by **Sproutman** » Thu Jul 31, 2003 8:33 pm

A brief thought here concerning the combination of Piling On and Mighty Blow. Mighty Blow can, as far as I'm aware, be used on either the Armour or the Injury rolls. With Piling On you're so much more likely to pass the Armour Roll that its much more effective to use Mighty Blow on the Injury, however to me this seems just a little bit strange. When the blocker is diving headlong at their prospective victim it just doesn't fit in my mind to think of them also delivering a "Might Blow".

A Mighty Blow signifies either sheer brute strength or, as I understood it, an improved degree of competance at hurting people. Neither of these seem appropriate when combined with the more chaotic implications of falling over on top of someone. Basically my feeling is that a combination of Piling On with another Skill is non-sensical, and therefore the horrible combo of PO and MB shouldn't happen.

But thats just me. In the league I play in we generally play by mutual agreement, if someone thinks something seems bizarre or stupid then we find a way to make it seem less so. Its like Orin mentioned earlier - compromise. Its only a game after all.

honeycomb kid · Post by **honeycomb kid** » Thu Jul 31, 2003 9:03 pm

shhhhh.....
(don't say that Sproutman - I thought you wanted to win with undead.)

Sproutman · Post by **Sproutman** » Thu Jul 31, 2003 9:49 pm

Yeah... true... but it just gets painful to watch when they cart off the 6th opposition player in a match and the coach starts talking seriously about retiring the team despite the fact that it won the game...

As I said above - I want everyone to have fun in a game as otherwise no one will want to play anymore! But I also want to win occasionally, not against all costs - just so that I'm not losing so embarrasingly anymore!

no_dice · Post by **no_dice** » Tue Aug 05, 2003 8:14 pm

Torg wrote:Put PO back to declare before AV roll and have a IGMEOY roll for it as well. Before people get all upset about that, just think about it. PO is the only time you can attack a player that is down and not have to worry about being sent off. You can see for consistancy sake this idea makes sense. Big deal that the attacker is prone as well, you all have stated that this is no real drawback as fouling has been cut back. Even if you keep the declaration after the armour roll, a ref roll needs to be added. People tend to get hung up on semantics, and will whine about the fact that only 'fouling' a player that is down gets a IGMEOY roll. Just change the termanology to 'dirty plays' not fouling. Dirty plays include fouling with or without the dirty player skill and Piling On. How hard is that?

Let's try to think of this visually... in football standards...

a guy throws a great block, knocks his opponent down and as the victim is falling he grabs him and goes along for the ride adding a little more hurt to the opponents life. Is this a penalty? no.

let's say the same guy throws the same block but doesn't fall at the same time as the opponent, but instead waits to see if the opponent is getting up right away, and if so he then decides to just on him. Is this a penalty? yes.

So, piling on the way it works now is not quite right. It should either, happen before the armor roll, or there should be a penalty roll for it's use, definately not both, definately not neither

Darkson · Post by **Darkson** » Tue Aug 05, 2003 10:54 pm

no_dice wrote:Let's try to think of this visually... in football standards...

Or let's not.

Don't make the mistake of thinking the BB is just a fantasy NFL rip-off. It was written by Brits in Britain when American Football was still largely unknown over here, and has as much of it's roots, if not more, in Rugby.

Boss · Post by **Boss** » Wed Aug 06, 2003 9:13 am

Let's try to think of this visually... in football standards...

a guy throws a great block, knocks his opponent down and as the victim is falling he grabs him and goes along for the ride adding a little more hurt to the opponents life. Is this a penalty? no.

let's say the same guy throws the same block but doesn't fall at the same time as the opponent, but instead waits to see if the opponent is getting up right away, and if so he then decides to just on him. Is this a penalty? yes.

Lets not go down that road with "realism" etc. It's all gamemechanics, nothing more. Bloodbowl is not played by NFL or even Rugby rules, it's played using made-up fantasy rules for fantasy races. Pretty much the only illegal thing is kicking players that are down and bringing Chainsaws onto the field ... hell, even make-believe Wizards cast Lightning bolt spells to stop the opponent. That's not illegal either.

Try using that with the visual NFL realism comparison. Doesn't quite work.

When piling on that player takes an enormous risc going down, especially if the opposition has a dirty player ... which I consider a necessary self-defence weapon against Piling On players.

You'll never see PO RSC minotaurs or rat ogres if PO has to be declared before, since

In my league we declare Piling On before Armor roll ... my Minotaur is still using piling on quite often. Works like a charm.

tik · Post by **tik** » Fri Aug 22, 2003 8:35 am

I know this is long since dead, but I'm reviving it to see what anyone thinks of this idea.

Piling on: must be declared before armour roll, AND piling on player is not cushioned, so opposing coach also rolls armour for the PO player.

Piling on never used to be a problem, because dirty player was the big kill skill... piling on was an invitation to be fouled... its well worth having a couple of dirties just for this.

[SdS]Adrian · Post by **[SdS]Adrian** » Mon Sep 22, 2003 1:24 pm

my english is horrible, but i try:

after studying the living rulebook i stumbled about Piling On
The player may use this skill after he has made a block, but only if the victim was knocked over.

And by the declaration of Block, the Result

Skull - The attacking player is knocked down.
Skull/Pow - Both players are knocked down, ...
Push - The defending player is pushed back ...
Push/Pow - Unless the defender has the Dodge skill he is pushed back and then knocked over.
Pow - The defending player is pushed back and then knocked down ...

My Question is - can i only use PO when i get a Push/Pow? Or every time the defender get´s down?

Grumbledook · Post by **Grumbledook** » Mon Sep 22, 2003 2:14 pm

you can use it when you get a pow or a push/pow

if you get both down then you have been knocked over as well so can't pile on and a normal push back well thats obvious you can't use it

Post by **DoubleSkulls** » Mon Sep 22, 2003 2:15 pm

You can use PO on POW, POW/PUSH and, if you have block, POW/SKULL.

Grumbledook · Post by **Grumbledook** » Mon Sep 22, 2003 2:16 pm

ah yer add what ian said ;]

tik · Post by **tik** » Mon Sep 22, 2003 2:23 pm

I guess no one thinks much of making an armour roll for the PO player as well.
Its interesting how one little change (IGMEOY) opens the way for a different skill to be overused.