Pick up a ball

[Greyhound]

Darkson, I follow your logic entirely, and I can trace it in my book.

Thanks for clarification. Daloonie, sorry mate but you actually confused me for a moment.

[Ullis]

Daloonie has a fair point here. The rules are somewhat vague in this respect (especially as this seems to be covered in lots of different places). I couldn't find anything conclusive about the ball always coming to a rest before the turn ends. But I do agree that it would be silly that the ball would bounce during the opponents turn.

[Darkson]

I couldn't find anything conclusive about the ball always coming to a rest before the turn ends.

Make armour and injury
rolls for players that were knocked down, and if the ball was
dropped then roll to see where it bounces too normally. Stunned
players should be turned face up, and then the opposing coach
may start to take their turn.

[alternat]

leaving alone the fact that the ball "bounces to" and not "bounces too".

[Deathwing]

I love this thread.

[daloonieshaman]

Darkson,
I do not disagree with you
we are just stressing different points.

We agree:
agree > failed pickup results in a turn over
differ > turn ends immediately vs turn ends when you get around to it.
agree > you do stuff as injury/armor, bounce ball, roll stuns over
differ > TD v/s no TD in current player turn.

We have our own version of the word immediately.

"Make armour and injury
rolls for players that were knocked down, and if the ball was
dropped then roll to see where it bounces too normally. Stunned
players should be turned face up, and then the opposing coach
may start to take their turn."

what you misread here is a continuation of the turn. The turn is OVER the moment the pickup fails not afterward when you have to do the maintenance crap before the other guy starts his turn. (Roll your stunned guys over, armor and injury (and possible apothecary), bounce the ball, set the timer, move your dice out of the way, bitch and moan about dropping the ball)

when you fail to pick up the ball, the "whistle is blown" and the TURN ENDS; hence the word immediately. As per your quote you then do the maintenance. (then wiz in some other question somewhere) then the other guy starts to take his turn.

And ...
at the end of the action. (Player drops the ball. END OF ACTION per pg 7 first sentence in paragraph after #8
While standing in the EZ and Holding the ball at the END of any of your players Action (Pg 15 Scoring a TD in your turn.)
a TD is scored
At the end of this player's turn (who failed to pick up the ball) the Guy in the EZ was NOT HOLDING THE BALL!!!!

so according to all quotes listed yours and mine, according to the rules of the game, it is not a TD in that player's turn.

of course:
In the opponents following turn it will be a TD and both players turn will be consumed with the TD and celebration.

[besters]

fascinating thread, can't believe it's gone on this long.

I hate to say it, but I think Darkson is about right on this one!

[daloonieshaman]

fascinating thread, can't believe it's gone on this long.

I hate to say it, but I think Darkson is about right on this one!

Darkson and I have a difference of opinion in the rules about when a turn ends.
Mine just happens to be supported by the rulebook.

[Greyhound]

Actually I can see Darkson's opinion supported by the rule book (and the person who wrote it) but i still haven't figured out how you support yours.

[daloonieshaman]

well I guess we agree to disagree
he has not proven to me that the player in the EZ who ends up catching the ball scores that turn
as much as I would love to see that wonderful play.

according to the rules:
the 8 things listed causes the turn to end called turnovers
According to the rules:
the coach may take no further actions
according to the rules:
the failed action ends immediately
according to the rules:
you do maintenance such as armor injury, ball ect
According to the rules:
A player cannot score unless he meets certain requirements (which were not met)

so in summary:
he flubs the roll (re-roll or not)
It is a turnover and his turn ends (according to the rules)
he does the clean up stuff
next guys turn

I just listed the rules to you in order most from pg 7 the last one from pg 12

I did not write the rules, I wish the guy scored a TD, but sorry he did not (in that turn), ACCORDING TO THE RULES!

[Greyhound]

A player cannot score unless he meets certain requirements (which were not met)

Can you expand on this part?

[daloonieshaman]

A player cannot score unless he meets certain requirements (which were not met)

Can you expand on this part?

Yes,
pg 15. (sorry wrong page quote before) Scoring TD in your turn
At the end of any of your players actions you may score a TD if: they are standing in the EZ, and they are holding the ball

the handoff player's action ended immediately when he flubbed the die roll. (as per the rules)

so the EZ player is not eligible to score (that turn) as the handoff player's action ended BEFORE the EZ player had the ball

at the end of the turn the player was not holding the ball. The turnover was committed when he flubbed his roll as per page 7 before the list of 8 things.

I hope this helps

here is a real world example:
(futbol/soccer)
Player gets the ball kicked to him he flubs his roll and hits it with his hand, it bounces of him to another player who kicks it in for a goal.
Is it a score, the ball was in motion and went into the goal.
No because the turnover occurred when he did one of the 8 things (in this case commit a handball)

another one:
Player runs down the field and gets the ball passed to him, he kicks it in and scores. BUT the line ref is calling him for Offside.
He kicked it in so it is a goal. No the turnover occurred when the line ref signaled Offside

the examples are the same thing the rules are stating.
You have one of the 8 errors which result in the END OF YOUR TURN called a TURNOVER (pg 7 of the rulebook above the list of 8 sins) stuff happens afterward but the play itself is dead.

[Grumbledook]

it is the other team that scores though, in both those cases if someone handled the ball and the other team then scored, the goal would likely stand as the ref wouldn't have had time to blow the whistle

even if the ref had the time, then as the ball fell to the other team for a good chance on goal, they let play go on


loonie does have a point, but it creates such a mess for when it happens at the end of a drive it makes no sense from a game mechanic point of view

there are plenty of rules that may cause semi conflicts but this example I've never seen actually ever happen in a game anyway

it is the nonsensical nature of that ruling that is the problem, everyone else can see the intent behind the rules, loonie is just going out of the way rules lawyering ;]

like he said he will just have to agree to disagree with pretty much anyone else, I admire his persistence though!

[duckwing]

A player cannot score unless he meets certain requirements (which were not met)

Can you expand on this part?

Yes,
pg 15. (sorry wrong page quote before) Scoring TD in your turn
At the end of any of your players actions you may score a TD if: they are standing in the EZ, and they are holding the ball

the handoff player's action ended immediately when he flubbed the die roll. (as per the rules)

so the EZ player is not eligible to score (that turn) as the handoff player's action ended BEFORE the EZ player had the ball

at the end of the turn the player was not holding the ball. The turnover was committed when he flubbed his roll as per page 7 before the list of 8 things.

So using your language the ball doesn't scatter at the end of the fumbling players turn?

A similar example is if you fumble a pass. There the rules say (p. 22) "The ball will bounce once from the throwers square, and the moving team will suffer a turnover and their turn ends immediately".

Does this mean that if you suffer a turnover from a fumbled pass the ball bounces at the end of the turn, thus giving the chance to score a TD at the end of the players turn, but if you suffer a turnover from a failed pick-up the ball scatters first after the turn is ended?

[Greyhound]

so better, if you were GFI, fell, the ball bounce and end in the lap of your opponent and he scores,
BUT if you hand off/pass it does not?