The change was made in part to accommodate the new "after the die roll" rules that covered all skills, and in part because the old skill placed the player prone 100% of the time. This clearly wasn't very good, because it meant that a full 50% of the time the average piler went down for no reason at all.
Many coaches have since complained that the new skill description is too good, because Piling On can never "fail" in the sense that you can't use the skill to no effect. (This places it in a category with Diving Tackle, which I'll save for another post.)
As promised, the BBRC will discuss this again in October 2002. I'd like to share a new idea I've cobbled together. I believe the new idea accomplishes all of the following:
1. It keeps the flavor and functionality of the skill.
2. It sets the prone rate in its proper place.
3. It allows for the possibility that going prone will not work.
Have a look and see what you think.
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Here's how it works:
Piling On: The player may use this skill after he has knocked over an opponent as a result of a block, but only if he failed to beat the victim's AV. The player falls on top of the opponent he has just knocked down and may make another armor roll against him with the following modifiers:
* Stunty: +1
* Man-sized (i.e., non-Stunty, non-Big Guy): +2
* Big Guy: +3
No other bonuses apply to this roll. For obvious reasons, a player who uses this skill is also knocked over. Don't make an armor roll for him, however - his fall is cushioned by the victim! Note that the piling on player is knocked over in his own square rather than that of his victim. (It is assumed that he rolls back there after flattening his opponent.) If the player pushed back the opponent before knocking him over but did not follow up the push, then he may not use this skill. Piling on does not cause a turnover unless the piling on player is carrying the ball.
Ok. So what did I change?
1. The piler gets to roll AV like any normal player after knocking down an opponent. This means he can use all his normal skills, like Mighty Blow and Claw, without interference from the Piling On skill.
2. If the victim is unhurt, the piling coach gets to make a decision: pile, or keep his feet?
3. The modifiers are now based on an unchanging size rather than a flexible ST. (Most of you will recognize these modifiers from the "New Idea" thread in the General Chat forum.)
Ok - that's all well and good, but what really changed? How will this affect most players? Specifically, we'd like to know how this change affects the following numbers:
1. AV breaks
2. Prone percentages
3. Casualty rates
Well, I'm happy to report that there's good news, good news, and even more good news.
The first bit of good news? The AV break rates are just about the same as they always were. I'll use a Norse Blitzer and a Troll as typical pilers, and your average AV8 linefodder as the victim.
* The Norse Blitzer currently breaks AV at a 72.2% clip (assuming he has a knockdown). With this change, he'd cut through at a 69.9% rate.
* The Troll currently breaks AV at a 91.7% clip. With this change, he'd cut through at a 83.8% rate.
What about prone rates for knockdowns?
* The Norse Blitzer currently goes prone at a 44.4% clip. In the 3E days, he went prone at a 100% clip. With this change, he'd go prone at a 72.2% rate.
* The Troll currently goes prone at a 63.9% rate. In the 3E days, he went prone at a 100% clip. With this change, he'd go prone at a 58.3% clip.
So we see two types of players with two slightly different results.
The standard player ends up with nearly the same AV break rate, which is good. He splits the prone difference between the old rate (100%) and the current rate. This should satisfy those who felt the old skill was too harsh and that the current one is too lenient.
The Big Guy ends up with a decrease in AV breaks, but a corresponding decrease in prone rates. Nothing really changes for him except that he can now go prone with nothing happening.
Speaking of which, how often will the player go prone for no effect on a knockdown?
* The Norse player was at 55.6% in the old days, 0% today, and he'd be at 30.1% tomorrow.
* The Troll was at 35-50% in the old days, depending on how you count an AV roll of 8; 0% today; and he'd be at 16% tomorrow.
So what do we see here? Well, it's a pretty good "split difference" between the old skill (very often prone for no good reason) and the current skill (never prone in a failing position). Those of you who care to do so may chalk up a point for the proposed change.
Finally, let's look at casualty rates for knockdowns:
* The Norse Blitzer goes from 12.0% to 11.7%, a negligible difference if ever there was one. This isn't surprising, because his AV penetration rate stayed just about the same.
* The Troll goes from 20.1% (assuming he won't pile on when he flushes the AV roll) to 19.5%...which again is negligible.
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Alright. How does this change compare when you factor in other skills?
Well, I've already showed how the penetration rates are just about static. And we've seen an insignificant drop in the casualty rate. Looking at the numbers for the MB-endowed Troll, we can bet that the Norse Blitzer will not notice a drop-off. Let's look at the current rule vs the proposed change.
* AV penetrations: 72.2% vs 75.6%
* Prone rates: 44.4% vs 58.3%
* For no effect: 0.0% vs 24.3%
* Casualty rate: 18.5% vs 15.7%
All in all, not too shabby. The numbers don't match up exactly - and yes, the skill "gets worse" in that you can go prone for no effect, but that's part of the point - but even the biggest skeptic has to agree that they're reasonable.
What about combinations with Claw? Well, the current rules don't allow the combo, so it's pointless to mention. All the relevant numbers go up with this change. (HUGE plus for this version, IMO.)
Finally, what about RSC? Let's take the prototypical POn/RSC piler, the Chaos Warrior, and send him through the ringer:
* AV penetrations: 83.3% vs 69.9%
* Prone rates: 55.6% vs 72.2% (vs 100% in 3E)
* For no effect: 0.0% vs 30.1% (vs 44.4% in 3E)
* Casualty rate: 34.7% vs 29.1%
It's a bit worse for this 2-skill, doubles-enhanced example. Still looks pretty good, though. That +4 to +2 change didn't hamper him a whole lot, all things considered. On the plus side, he gets no worse if he suffers a ST decrease.
(For what it's worth, I think RSC is rather obscene in its current incarnation. But that's not a point for this thread.)
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Ok! That's my take at fixing this skill. I think it keeps the lethality, reintroduces the possibility of failure, gets the prone numbers in a reasonable rate, and combines better with existing skills. And all I had to do was let the player roll AV first normally before going prone if the coach wanted him to use the skill. Sure, it won't be as good for the Chaos Warriors, BOBs, and Mummies of the world, but they generate most of the complaints about the skill to begin with
As usual, comment. You know you want to.
Cheers!
-Chet
...Thanks.
