It's up in the air.... Or is it?

[Mojoshenpo]

Moving player hands off to team-mate; team-mate blows role and the ball scatters back into another players square; 'nother player makes roll to get ball: may he move or is turn over for failing hand-off?

Same situation, except ball scatters back to handing-off player who successfully secures the ball... may the team continue activating, or does the failed hand-off end the turn?

Mojo

"You can't outrun this: (1)(1)"

[GalakStarscraper]

Failure to catch a ball is not a turnover if it scatters to another player even the original player and is caught.

Galak

[dwisetiger]

Galak, thanks for the reply. I was playing Mojo when this happened. I just wanted to try and clarify since I am not 100% certain of the rule.

I tried to handoff to a hobgoblin, but missed the roll. The ball scattered to my bull centaur, who also missed. Then it scattered back to the original hobgoblin, who made the roll for the bouncing ball. I convinced Mojo that this did not end my turn, and the hobgoblin ran in for the score. Was this correct? Sounds like it was from the previous response.

I guess the big question is "When is a failed roll not a turnover?"

Does this work the same for a pass? If i miss a pass and it scatters to one of my other players who makes the catch, does that end my turn?

We had the same situation occur when Mojo's thrower fumbled while trying to pass. The ball scattered, was missed, scattered again back to the thrower, and was caught by the thrower. Mojo found a ruling that said a fumbled pass was always a turnover, so we ruled his turn to be over. Was this correct?

I know thats a lot of questions, but I'm just trying to clarify when a failed roll is not a turnover. Sounds like if you end up with the ball, however you got it, it is not a turnover. But then that does not hold true for the fumbled pass example above.

Responses highly appreciated.

[GalakStarscraper]

The Catch roll is an odd beast in Blood Bowl in that a failed Catch roll NEVER causes a turnover by itself. Its one of the more difficult things to teach newbies, but I personally don't have a problem with it as a rule.

There are 3 different types of catch rolls during your turn:

1) Catch roll from a Pass. A failed roll is not a turnover as long as when the ball comes to REST it has been caught by one of your players(regardless of what happen during the time it takes to get there).

2) Catch roll from a Handoff. See above ... exact same rules.

3) Catch roll from a Bouncing Ball. This event on its own is NEVER a turnover if you fail regardless of who has the ball when it comes to rest (you, ground, or opponent).

So yes your Hobgoblin scoring was perfectly legal.

Now as to the fumbled pass being caught. That's a turnover. The fumbled pass was the action causing the turnover. Catch rolls by themselves cannot cause turnover (you have to resolve the final resting state of the ball first). It was a turnover as soon as the pass fumbled ... what happened from there was just resolving the resting state of the ball ... same for a botched pick-up roll.

And finally the other rolls that you are allowed to screw up (ie fail) without a turnover during your turn: Bonehead, Really Stupid, Hypnotic Gaze, Pro, and Landing rolls from Throw TeamMate if the thrown player didn't have the ball (what isn't clear is if a TTM fumbled pass is a turnover if the player didn't have a ball (its on the list for clarification)).

Galak

[Mojoshenpo]

... that the bull centaur failed a pickup roll (LRB P4, #4; Player rolls to pick up the ball and fails), therefore ending the turn after resolving final scatter....

Mojo

"You can't outrun this: (1)(1)"

[GalakStarscraper]

... that the bull centaur failed a pickup roll (LRB P4, #4; Player rolls to pick up the ball and fails), therefore ending the turn after resolving final scatter....

Mojo

"You can't outrun this: (1)(1)"

Sorry MoJo ... a bouncing ball is a CATCH roll not a PICKUP roll. This is made clear by the fact that the Bull Centaur could have used the Catch skill to try to reroll the failure and not the Sure Hands skill.

My original statement was correct, the hobgoblin scoring above was perfectly legal. The LRB quote that was stated doesn't apply to this rules question.

Galak

[DoubleSkulls]

Now as to the fumbled pass being caught. That's a turnover. The fumbled pass was the action causing the turnover.

LRB 1.3 pp8

The ball is passed and not caught by a player from the moving team

I can't see anywhere in the LRB that it states that a fumbled pass is a turnover! Can you give me a reference?

Ian

[Dangerous Dave]

Ian,

Page 22 of LRB 1.3 says:-

Fumbles

Sometimes a player attempting to throw the ball will drop
it in their own square. This is more likely if the player has
any opposing players breathing down his neck! To
represent this, if the dice roll for a pass is 1 or less
before or after modification, then the thrower has
fumbled and dropped the ball. The ball will bounce once
from the thrower’s square, and the moving team will
suffer a turnover and their team turn ends immediately.

Think that's clear!



Dave

[DoubleSkulls]

Thanks for that. Typical inconsistency , why didn't they list it on pp8 with the list of all turnover events...

[Khail]

Probably because Fumbles are listed under "advanced rules" and they didn't want to confuse people just learning the game. Though I don't recall ever having met someone that didn't jump straight into the advanced section before their first game (or just learned that way)...