Throw not caught, but then bounces into the arms of a player

[Buggrit]

Had this come up in a match against glowworm not so long ago, being the last turn and the only touchdown for his team that match (and being a very sporting kind of chap, lol) I ruled that he should get a TD for it as it was a non league game and I wasn't too worried about the result (I was playing with my Orc team who are also non current league)

What happened was this....
GW's Chaos dwarf managed to scoop up the ball in the pouring rain and threw an innaccurate long bomb which landed next to a Hobgob who was in the end zone. It then bounced into his hands but he failed to grab it, it scattered and then bounced back into his hands again, this time he grabbed the ball with all his might.

My question is when does the turnover occur? Is the turn over as soon as the throw is uncaught (in this case when it hit the ground and subsequently bounced) or does it end when the ball comes to a complete rest (after the hobgob had grabbed it)?

I'm not fussed about the result of that particular match as it was a great game and well played all round, but if this should happen in the future during a league match as commish I would like to be able to make the correct call on it.

Cheers, Buggrit

[The Ref]

Ahrgh. This just won't get right

Press my signature to see a nice BB league..

As a rule, we don't bounce the ball more than we have to, even though faults do happen sometime

[mepmuff]

From the throwing section of the rulebook:

TURNOVERS
If a ball thrown by a player isn’t caught by a player from the
moving team, this causes a turnover and the moving team’s turn
ends. The turnover does not take place until the ball finally
comes to rest. This means that if the ball misses the target but is
still caught by a player from the moving team, then a turnover
does not take place. The ball could even scatter or bounce out of
bounds, be thrown back into an empty square, and as long as it
was caught by a player from the moving team then the turnover
would be avoided!

the bolded part says it all...

[Old Man Draco]

It then bounced into his hands but he failed to grab it, it scattered and then bounced back into his hands again, this time he grabbed the ball with all his might.

This part I found even more interesting. After a failed catch, the ball scatters, but stays where it fell. It does not bounce again. It does bounce after the scattered pass, but not after the scatter of the failed catch.

[slup]

This part I found even more interesting. After a failed catch, the ball scatters, but stays where it fell. It does not bounce again. It does bounce after the scattered pass, but not after the scatter of the failed pass.

Note the difference between scatter and bounce.

A ball scatters at kick-off and at an inaccurate pass to determine where it will land instead of the intended target (it is still in the air). Scatter represents the inaccuracy of the pass or kick-off.

It bounces after scatter (see above), failed catch and pick-up or when the ball for some reasons is dropped.

[Old Man Draco]

Last word of my post should have been "catch". Edited it. Makes more sense that way.

[Kheldar]

To make it clear. If the hobgob had not been in the endzone, it would not have been a turnover.

[Old Man Draco]

You mean a failed catch is not a turnover?

[Snew]

Did you see it?

The ball shouldn't have "bounced" again after the "failed catch" scatter. It just scatters and stays next to the Hobgob. The game was over there.

Do you have house rules where you bounce the ball after a scatter from a failed pick-up/catch? If so, where does it stop? Anyway, if this is the case the turnover occours AFTER all the ball bouncing goodness is over and it comes to a rest. If it's on the pitch, it's a turnover because it was a failed pass action. If it's in his hands and the player is out of the End Zone wouldn't be a turnover because the pass action was successful. (see the rules post above)

If that player is standing in the EZ as this one was, and the ball comes to a rest in his hands. That's a TD then a turnover.

So, you have to look at how you play and determine if it was a legal play. From where I sit it wasn't.

edited my post because I was plain wrong in a couple places.

[Old Man Draco]

Tell me where you sit and I'll tell you where I'm sitting.

I totally agree with you Snew.

[Rituro]

By some random chance, since the player was in the end zone, did the ball bounce into the crowd and then "scatter" (throw + bounce) back towards the player? That's the only way I can see this play being legal as described.

[zerak]

Snew :

it's a turnover because it was a failed catch

snew, the turnover doesn't come from the failed catch. it comes from not having the ball in the hands of a player on the moving team at the end of the pass-action.

isn't that right?

[Snew]

Snew :

it's a turnover because it was a failed catch

snew, the turnover doesn't come from the failed catch. it comes from not having the ball in the hands of a player on the moving team at the end of the pass-action.

isn't that right?

Indeed. Failing to catch the ball isn't a turnover. Failing to end the pass action with the ball in the hands of one of your players is. You're absoluetly correct and I've edited my post. Thanks.

[tomlloyd]

The other possibility is it scattered onto a prone player then scattered back to him.

[Buggrit]

The way that we've read the rules it states that when the ball hits an empty square it will bounce once, we've always bounced it from fumbles, failed catches, failed pick ups and any other instance where the ball hits the ground. You drop a ball, it's not going to sit still, it's going to bounce.