Talk Fantasy Football

As some of you might now, "Falesh" is programming a LRB5-client, which is quite similar to the Java-client of SkiJunkie (LRB4). However, he was unsure about the "riot"-thing. Actually this thing got few attention, and that's why i want to post it here:

Falesh wrote:When a Riot puts the game back by one turn do both teams have to be able to go back a turn for it to have an effect or can it move just one team back? e.g. if team A's turn is 1 and team B's turn is 2 does team B's turn go back to 1 or is it left at 2 because team A cannot go back before turn 1?

It reads like it should move the turn back even if only one team can move back, but if only one team goes back they have gained an extra turn.

I hope the hard bloodbowl-core (GorTex, TuernRedvenom, Galak, etc.) have heard this question before and know the right answer to this.

It states in the Riot description in LRB 5:

3 Riot: The trash talk between two opposing players
explodes and rapidly degenerates, involving the rest
of the players. Roll a D6. On a 1-3, the referee lets the
clock run on during the fight; both teams’ turn markers
are moved forward along the turn track a number of
spaces equal to the D6 roll. If this takes the number of
turns to 8 or more for both teams, then the half ends.
On a roll of 4-6 the referee resets the clock back to
before the fight started, so both teams turn markers
are moved one space back along the track. The turn
marker may not be moved back before turn 1; if this
would happen do not move the Turn marker in either
direction.

So in the case you mention, Riot has no effect at all. You have to be able to move back both coaches turn markers simultaneously, and neither one can be moved to turn 0.

Jural wrote:You have to be able to move back both coaches turn markers simultaneously

I'm not sure, if i have to turn them back simultaneously. Where do you get that from? I think the description in the LRB is not explicit.

Just a wild shot here.

It says in the description on the kick off table:

...so both teams turn markers are moved one space back along the track. The turn marker may not be moved back before turn 1; if this would happen do not move the Turn marker in either direction.

From what i've highlighted you'll notice that the rules first mention both turn markers being moved. This must be the overall rule.
Then they mention the exception which seems to only apply to "the Turn marker".

Therefore - yes you move the one turn marker back to turn 1 from turn 2. And you'll leave the other Turn marker where it was - at turn 1.

That is how i understand it, too.

But i think it isn't meant that way. This would have the consequence that, the One-Turn-Scoring-Team would get a ninth Turn in this half and the opponent not.

Well that's kind of unfair and from an rpg-point of view illogical, as the referee resets his clock which counts the time for both teams.

As the rule is stated currently ... yes if only one turn marker can be moved back than it would move back and the other would not.

Yes this would mean that a team that one turn scored on the very first turn and then was immediately followed by a Riot would have 9 turns vs his opponent's 8.

However ... the changes made in LRB 5.0 make one turn scoring more difficult. And the odds of this happening are low enough that I honestly don't see it as an issue that needs "fixed".

If you see this as an issue ... take more Diving Tackle on your team ...

Galak

[EDIT- Babbling removed]

I guess the wording should be changed to

1) ...neither turn marker may be moved back before turn 1; if this would happen do not move either Turn marker in either direction...

OR

2) ...neither team's turn marker may be moved back before turn 1; if this would happen for either team do not move the turn marker for that team...

2) is more consistent with the current ruling, but I think 1) is a better choice overall. The advantage of going last in both halves is simply too much, especially as it can only happen if you already achieved a two turn score in the second half.

GalakStarscraper wrote: ...Yes this would mean that a team that one turn scored on the very first turn and then was immediately followed by a Riot would have 9 turns vs his opponent's 8...

Maybe it's late and I'm drunk, but if you opened the first or second half with a one turn score, wouldn't your turn marker be on 1, and your opponent's not yet in play (or on one, if a league allows it?)

I think this scenario can only happen if you two turn score when the ball is kicked to you in a half. And as most teams can two turn score, it really is more of an issue.

Yes, the way it's worded... If a team scores in the first turn and a riot is rolled. Nothing happens, because neither marker can be moved back before turn 1 (i.e. Turn 0)

It's when a team scores a 2 turn touchdown that they get the bonus turn without the opposing team getting one. Because the player on turn 2 is moved back to 1, while the other player (who's had one turn) stays on turn one.

The situation where this is important is vs a slow bashing team. Score in 2 turns, have the turn counter moved back to 1. Bashy team recieves and starts their second turn first. If they grind up the pitch slowly and score on turn 8 the agility team gets their turn 8 (technically their 9th turn) to play on pitch. This means extra KO recovery rolls, it also means if they can score a OTS then they enter the second half 2-1 up and kicking. I'm actually thinking this situation isn't a problem, anything which disrupts "the kick, win 2-1 play" and makes it a little less effective is a good thing.

Quote:

3 Riot: The trash talk between two opposing players
explodes and rapidly degenerates, involving the rest
of the players. Roll a D6. On a 1-3, the referee lets the
clock run on during the fight; both teams’ turn markers
are moved forward along the turn track a number of
spaces equal to the D6 roll. If this takes the number of
turns to 8 or more for both teams, then the half ends.
On a roll of 4-6 the referee resets the clock back to
before the fight started, so both teams turn markers
are moved one space back along the track. The turn
marker may not be moved back before turn 1; if this
would happen do not move the Turn marker in either
direction.

The turn marker may not be moved back before turn 1; if this would happen do not move the Turn marker in either direction.

So the suggestion is here that if either team is at turn 1 or turn 0 then the riot DOES NOT take place at all. Because why would it say do not move the Turn marker in either direction.

So if one team is not at least on turn 2, enabling them to be put back to turn 1, Then the turn marker can not be moved in either direction. So in effect there is no need to roll the dice for a riot result.

If it is only referring to a 4-6 result then why mention either direction. Because the only direction moved in a 4-6 result is backwards. If you are not allowed to move in the other direction - then that would imply ignore the other result of 1-3.

The other scenario of applying different results to either team would mean that if team "A" was on turn 2 and team "B" was on turn 1 and the die result was "3". Then Team "A" would move his maker to turn 5 and team "B" marker would stay at turn 1.

Team A on turn 5
Team B on turn 1

Now that is ridiculous. But the fact is that team "B" could not be put back to turn 0, and the rules say The turn marker may not be moved back before turn 1; if this would happen do not move the Turn marker in either direction.

So the answer is that both teams MUST be moved in unison.
And if one team is at turn 0 or 1 then neither team is effected by the result of a Riot.

skritter wrote:Quote:

3 Riot: The trash talk between two opposing players
explodes and rapidly degenerates, involving the rest
of the players. Roll a D6. On a 1-3, the referee lets the
clock run on during the fight; both teams’ turn markers
are moved forward along the turn track a number of
spaces equal to the D6 roll. If this takes the number of
turns to 8 or more for both teams, then the half ends.
On a roll of 4-6 the referee resets the clock back to
before the fight started, so both teams turn markers
are moved one space back along the track. The turn
marker may not be moved back before turn 1; if this
would happen do not move the Turn marker in either
direction.

The turn marker may not be moved back before turn 1; if this would happen do not move the Turn marker in either direction.

So the suggestion is here that if either team is at turn 1 or turn 0 then the riot DOES NOT take place at all. Because why would it say do not move the Turn marker in either direction.

So if one team is not at least on turn 2, enabling them to be put back to turn 1, Then the turn marker can not be moved in either direction. So in effect there is no need to roll the dice for a riot result.

If it is only referring to a 4-6 result then why mention either direction. Because the only direction moved in a 4-6 result is backwards. If you are not allowed to move in the other direction - then that would imply ignore the other result of 1-3.

The other scenario of applying different results to either team would mean that if team "A" was on turn 2 and team "B" was on turn 1 and the die result was "3". Then Team "A" would move his maker to turn 5 and team "B" marker would stay at turn 1.

Team A on turn 5
Team B on turn 1

Now that is ridiculous. But the fact is that team "B" could not be put back to turn 0, and the rules say The turn marker may not be moved back before turn 1; if this would happen do not move the Turn marker in either direction.

So the answer is that both teams MUST be moved in unison.
And if one team is at turn 0 or 1 then neither team is effected by the result of a Riot.

Wow, this sounds very conclusive. Thanks for your nice activity here.
I'll tell Falesh about it.

skritter wrote: The other scenario of applying different results to either team would mean that if team "A" was on turn 2 and team "B" was on turn 1 and the die result was "3". Then Team "A" would move his maker to turn 5 and team "B" marker would stay at turn 1.

Team A on turn 5
Team B on turn 1

Now that is ridiculous.

This is impossible under the riot rules, by almost any intepretation. The riot rules only allow the turn marker to move one square backwards. If team A is on Turn 2, and Team B is on Turn 1 when a riot is rolled, there are two possible outcomes based on the roll of a d6:

1-3 The clock is move forward, so Team A and Team B each have their turnmarker moved one forward, leaving

Team A on turn 2+x
Team B on turn 1+x,

Where x is the die roll (1, 2, or 3). Note, the effects of riot always occur in this situation, as adding 1, 2, or 3 to a turn always makes it greater than 1 (unless your league plays with negative turns!)

4-6 The clock is moved backwards one space. All the above discussions apply. (generally Team A and Team B end up at one turn earlier, unless one or both of them are turn 1.)

I understand the wording mentioning "Any direction" is a bit odd, and I'm not sure why it is in there. I think it's in there to stop players from moving the clock forward 4, 5, or 6 spaces if a 4-6 is rolled and it's turn 1.

Wouldn't allowing only one of the turn markers result in the teams 'switching' turn order as well.

If team A on turn 2 moves back to turn 1, while team B stays on turn 1.

Now, Team B, the one being kicked to, starts their turn and moves the turn marker to turn 2.

This means that Team A will have the last turn of the half now instead of Team B, giving them the 1st and last turns of the half.

So, consider this an endorsment for re-wording the Kick Off result so that a riot only goes back one turn if both teams are on turn 2 or greater.

I'll put this on the list since the BBRC is going through the review process right now for 2007.

Galak

The point to my previous post is that the wording is unclear and confusing.

I personally would play it (as I interpret the rule logically)

that any result of 1-3 both players move forward regardless.

And on a result of 4-6 with at least 1 player on turn 1 or less - nothing happens to both players (both players move in unison or not at all)

=======================

But having said that,
I have found the concept interesting that on the ODD certain situation that only one player moves back a space because the other player can not (as he is on turn 1), and thus changing the final order of play.

This would be very ODD and very limited situation, making it pleasing, as it throws in an uncertain situation into the melting pot. Breaking up the normal order of play and chance.