Turning Over and Scoring.

[Aliboon]

Hi, just had a situation where I'm not quite sure what should have happened.

A player of mine was in the endzone waiting for a hand-off, the player handing off failed his gfi (and got BH) but the ball bounced into my player in the endzone and he caught the ball. Now when did the turnover and then the score occur.

1. A player on the moving team is Knocked Down (being injured
by the crowd or being Placed Prone is not a turnover unless it is
a player from the active team holding the ball … e.g. skills like
Diving Tackle, Piling On and Wrestle count as being Placed
Prone) or
2. A passed ball, or hand-off, is not caught by any member of the
moving team before the ball comes to rest or
3. A player from the moving team attempts to pick up the ball
and fails (note: failing a catch roll, as opposed to a pick up, is by
itself never a turnover) or
4. A touchdown is scored...

So my player was knocked down-a turnover (scenario 1). I then catch the bouncing ball in my opo's turn-a turnover (scenario 4) and then I spend the next turn celebrating as I scored in my opo's turn, so his next turn normally, but not in this case as it was the end of the half, so me to receive at the beginning of the 2nd?

Or does my opo's turn only start when the ball comes to rest, i.e. when I catch it in the endzone and seeing as it is a TD, it's now his last turn of the half receiving a kick?

From the above rules, I think it is the former, but it sort of seems wrong and i may have missed another rule somewhere.

[frogbear]

This is an awesome example.

If this happened in our league, I probably would have ruled that since the opponents turn has not started till the ball has officially come to rest, and the player has caught the ball in the endzone, then a TD is awarded before the opponent's turn.

Theoretically one could score in an opponents turn if an interception happened in an end zone - highly unlikely as it is. Also ball carrier being pushed into the endzone is a TD.

Hence how I would rule this. It really does not matter who's turn it is. All that is important is that the player is holding the ball in the end zone.

Anyone else shine some light on this one?

[DoubleSkulls]

Its a TD and a turnover. At the end of a player's action, after the ball has come to rest, you have possession of the ball in your opponent's end zone. The fact you turned over doing it is pretty irrelevant.

[Aliboon]

That would make sense, but as the rules are written at the moment, it says the turn over happens immediately after a player is knocked down, that would indicate that while the ball is bouncing around it is the opo's turn imo, unless i've missed a caveat somewhere.

[Digger Goreman]

The ball has to come to rest....

... as Ian stated: "Its a TD and a turnover."

[tenwit]

This came up a few months ago. Someone pointed out that "turnover" is used to mean two separate things:
1) An event that causes the current team to yield control even if not everyone has had an action yet.
2) The actual handing over of control due to a prior turnover event.

So the failed GFI is a turnover-causing event. The actual handover of control doesn't happen until the turn ends, which is when the ball comes to a rest. If the LRB distinguished between the two meanings of the word it would prevent this confusion.

[DoubleSkulls]

That would make sense, but as the rules are written at the moment, it says the turn over happens immediately after a player is knocked down, that would indicate that while the ball is bouncing around it is the opo's turn imo, unless i've missed a caveat somewhere.

Well in this context 'immediate' means once the ball has come to rest and all dice rolls are complete.

So for a different example, if your player falls over and drops the ball into an opponent's hands he cannot use a team reroll to try and catch the ball.

I'm happy to concede that the wording could be better and happy to listen to suggestions but that's the way you ought to be playing.

[Aliboon]

Make armour and injury rolls for players that were knocked down, and if the ball was dropped then roll to see where it bounces too normally. Stunned players should be turned face up, and then the opposing coach
may start to take their turn.

No, you're right, I did miss a caveat, I should have kept reading...

(although the 2nd "too" should just be a "to" )

And on p13 (although relating to passes)

The turnover does not take place until the ball finally
comes to rest.

But on the GFI section:

If the player is Knocked Down then his team
suffers a turnover and the team’s turn ends immediately.[/quote]

I don't think the bit in italics is necessary, it just confused me and my opo.

(It was pbem and I set up for his last turn, although I posed the question saying I would be happy with whatever he thought-he too thought I scored in his turn).

[skritter]

The turnover does not take place until the ball finally
comes to rest.

But on the GFI section:

If the player is Knocked Down then his team
suffers a turnover and the team’s turn ends immediately.[/quote]

I don't think the bit in italics is necessary, it just confused me and my opo.

Well then the current passage should read something like:

If the player is Knocked Down then his team suffers a turnover and the team’s turn ends, and if the ball is involved, immediately the ball finally comes to rest.

[Xeterog]

If the player is Knocked Down then his team suffers a turnover and the team’s turn ends, and if the ball is involved, immediately the ball finally comes to rest.

That makes it sound like the ball doesn't bounce.

Also, the Turn is not over until all armor/injury rolls are completed as well as the ball coming to a rest.