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Fanatic blocking my own player
Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2009 1:53 pm
by duckwing
I haven't been able to find any thread with this particular question so here goes.
If my goblin fanatic moves into and blocks one of my own players (a troll, for instance) can my other players help either side to help me get three dice for or against? Does the opponents players assist? Does opponent tackle zones prevent my players from assisting?
The rules state that the block is carried out as normal, but blocking your own player isn't a normal situation
Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2009 8:31 pm
by DoubleSkulls
I agree its a bit blurry.
The attacking coach must declare if any of his players will give an assist first, then the defending coach must add defensive assists with players from his team.
So you get to freely pick & choose whether your own players assist or not. Your opponent can also pick & choose.
Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 6:42 am
by duckwing
Thanks, that's what I wanted to hear
EDIT: On second thought, my opponent is neither the attacking or defending coach. Wouldn't that mean that he won't be allowed to assign any assists at all, according to the wording in that quote?
Re: Fanatic blocking my own player
Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 12:05 pm
by Fat_Emrys
duckwing wrote:... can my other players help either side to help me get three dice for or against? ...
Whatever the eventual ruling, if I was the opponent I wouldn't be wanting there to be a three-dice block - the more dice that are rolled, the more likely a wussy pushback would come up. It'd be more effective to assist the troll to get the block down to a 1D (or, even better, 2D against - assuming that I'd get to choose the skull or pow in that situation rather than the push).
Re: Fanatic blocking my own player
Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 6:08 am
by duckwing
Emrys wrote:duckwing wrote:... can my other players help either side to help me get three dice for or against? ...
Whatever the eventual ruling, if I was the opponent I wouldn't be wanting there to be a three-dice block - the more dice that are rolled, the more likely a wussy pushback would come up. It'd be more effective to assist the troll to get the block down to a 1D (or, even better, 2D against - assuming that I'd get to choose the skull or pow in that situation rather than the push).
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You wouldn't get to chose the skull even if you're allowed to assist and make it two or three dice against the fanatic, since you're still not the defending coach.
Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 6:56 am
by DoubleSkulls
You choose the dice to apply however many are rolled.
If the other coach has players who can assist then he chooses whether they'll assist or not after you do.
Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 9:31 am
by Gorbad
I would disagree Ian:
From the LRB (and your quote)...
The attacking coach must declare if any of his players will give
an assist first, then the defending coach must add defensive
assists with players from his team. In order to make an assist,
the player....<etc>
As both players are coached by the same coach, he is both attacking and defending coach. The opponent has no say whatsoever, and therefore his players don't give assists.
Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 9:46 am
by Old Man Draco
Fully agree with Gorbad here.
Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 10:12 am
by plasmoid
But depending on wording, they might be able to cancel assists...
Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 11:10 am
by DoubleSkulls
Well if you want to be pedants I'll have to go and think about it some more ...
The attacking coach must declare if any of his players will give
an assist first, then the defending coach must add defensive
assists with players from his team. In order to make an assist,
the player:
1. Must be adjacent to the enemy player involved in the block,
Since they are all on the same team there are no enemy players involved so no one gets to block... as you've already pointed out since the opposing coach isn't the attacker or defender then they can't assist either.
That works - no assists for anyone and you could even maintain that's what the rules say. I'd say the rules just don't cater for it, but that answer is as good as any other.
Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 11:32 am
by Darkson
We've always played it (assuming no opposing players) that it's a one-on-one block, so the Fanatic vsd. one of his teammates.
Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 11:49 am
by duckwing
ianwilliams wrote:Well if you want to be pedants I'll have to go and think about it some more ...
The attacking coach must declare if any of his players will give
an assist first, then the defending coach must add defensive
assists with players from his team. In order to make an assist,
the player:
1. Must be adjacent to the enemy player involved in the block,
Since they are all on the same team there are no enemy players involved so no one gets to block... as you've already pointed out since the opposing coach isn't the attacker or defender then they can't assist either.
That works - no assists for anyone and you could even maintain that's what the rules say. I'd say the rules just don't cater for it, but that answer is as good as any other.
Being even more of a pedant, it says
the enemy player, not
the enemy player from the opposing team. You might argue that the fanatic temporarely becomes an enemy if he blocks someone on his own team
But I guess we'll just have to make up a house rule concerning this.
Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 9:28 pm
by Smeborg
I have to agree with Ian and say that the situation is not catered for in the rules (at least not in any crystal clear way).
Accordingly you have to apply a dose of common sense and BB spirit.
I would compare the situation to (say) Death Bowl (or similar) where you have more than 2 teams on the pitch. The Fanatic becomes a 3rd party, the 1st and 2nd parties (Gobbo coach and his opponent) get to assist as they see fit.
Hope this helps.
Posted: Fri Apr 03, 2009 5:32 am
by Wylder
It seems kind of cheap to me to allow the fanatic coach to declare all the assists on whichever side, and then pick the dice. This kind of play will almost always result in pushes only, completely removing the risk from plowing the fanatic through a crowd of both teams players.
He's supposed to be a wrecking ball. Allowing him to differentiate between allied players (to push) and opposing team players (to smash) seems a bit cheesy to me.
I would prefer the fanatic to be counted as a member of the opposing team when blocking an allied player. Allow the opposing coach to assist and choose dice as though it were his. Don't let the fanatics coach off so lightly if it plows into his team.
Whether the rules read this way or not? No clue. Thats how I'd play it though.
Posted: Fri Apr 03, 2009 6:53 am
by Gorbad
Smeborg wrote:I have to agree with Ian and say that the situation is not catered for in the rules (at least not in any crystal clear way).
Accordingly you have to apply a dose of common sense and BB spirit.
I fully agree that everyone in the world should apply more common sense, however, as can be seen in the world at large, not everyone is capable of it.
For those people it is a good thing to not rely upon interpretation, but to have only one way to read the rules.
The problem is (IMHO) that the B&C skill description is a bit lengthy as it is now, so to add a sentence like "For the purposes of this block only the B&C player is treated as being on the opposing team" would make it too long.
But to put extra text in the 'Assist' chapter for this skill alone is also a bit ridiculous.
Conlusion: Best put in a FAQ at the end.
Code: Select all
Q: My Ball & Chain player is blocking one of my other players. Can my opponent give assists to either player?
A: For the purposes of this block only, treat the Ball & Chain player as playing for the other team. I.e. you can give assists to the player being blocked, and your opponent decides if any of his players help the Ball & Chain player!