When to roll armor breaks

[simplegame]

I am playing a league. I blitzed with a player with mighty blow, knocked the
defender down and then finished moving my last 2 spaces before rolling for the armor break.

My opponent said that my chance to check for the armor break had already passed. I let it go, but was wondering does every one play like this? If it is the exact letter of the rules, fine, but still kind of unsporting, I thought.

Also, when do you roll for regeneration after the injury roll or the casualty roll. The same player decided to roll to check to see if "I even needed to bother with the casualty roll".

Any thoughts or input would be appreciated.

-- Simplegame

[Digger Goreman]

You must roll for armor breaks....

The sequence is:

Player down on die/dice roll
Choose space to push player IF applicable (i.e., no stand firm/sidestep)
Choose follow up square (optional)
Roll armor (not optional)
Apply results (down/stun/knock out/injury) (not optional)
Continue movement on blitz (optional)

Results of injury and regen are kinda "when you get to it"... as they don't affect play on the field unless using an apothecary for a knock out.... We tend to stop the clock and roll for injury result to get it out of the way, and then roll regen.... I could be mistaken, but I don't think rolling regen first makes a difference....

[simplegame]

so if someone continues to move after a blitz without rolling for armor, you must back up and roll for armor since it is not optional?

That is the way I understand your comment.

Let me know.

[daloonieshaman]

technically
Blitz

The player may carry on moving after the effects of the block have been worked out if he has any squares of movement left.

Regeneration (Extraordinary)

If the player suffers a Casualty result on the Injury table, then roll a D6 for Regeneration after the roll on the Casualty table and after any Apothecary roll if allowed.

[Rabid_Bogscum]

mate sometimes its very important to roll everything in exact order. If im playing against a friend or league mate and they continue on their movement quickly then roll the armour im not fussed. That said I generally wont allow a follow up if they have already rolled armour. There is an order that should be followed, but if it doesnt effect any gameplay I say bugger it, and would hope others would pull their heads in and not try and powergame everyone.

[besters]

Never known this to happen, if some one wants to finish the blitz move before rolling, it's usually just convenient. After all it's to there advantage to know the result of the roll.

I have had to remind people they haven't rolled for armour/injury after doing this though!

I would agree the follow up needs to be decided before the armour roll but if you are moving the player further on this doesn't really impact here.

I would also say it's good practise to take the rolls at the correct point, but not something to penalise.

[lunchmoney]

...... when do you roll for regeneration after the injury roll or the casualty roll. The same player decided to roll to check to see if "I even needed to bother with the casualty roll".

Any thoughts or input would be appreciated.

-- Simplegame

you should roll it anyway, for the feeling it gives when you kill that big, bad, troll it dont matter if he gets up again. that just means you can lay the hurt some more.

[daloonieshaman]

For league play ...
It is important to record the type of injury (regardless of regin) to keep track of Cas SI or dead so you an award thing like deadliest player

[Ullis]

The rules are actually just a little bit vague on this. Below's the relevant rule:

INJURIES: Unless the rules state otherwise, any player that is Knocked Down may be injured. The opposing coach rolls two D6 and adds their scores together in an attempt to try to beat the Knocked Down player’s Armour value. If the roll succeeds, then the opposing coach is allowed to roll on the Injury table in the next column to see what injury the player has suffered.

So, just looking at the wording there, it could be argued that it's up to the opposing coach to decide whether he wants to roll for injury or not. Of course that'd be a losing proposition as the "allowed to" only refers to the fact that rolling on the injury table is a good thing for the opposing coach but still obligatory. Otherwise we'd see things like people not rolling for injuries on turn 16 cause the other guy had suffered enough anyway and, you know, that last block wasn't meant to roll triple POW's anyway.

However, rolling for armor is clearly obligatory and not up to the opposing coach as the word "may" only refers only to the fact that the armour roll might not succeed, and not to any explicit decision by anyone. The next sentence would be very poorly worded otherwise.

What this means that if your opponent wanted to play the rules lawyer, he should've shouted: "Stop! You can't move that player before you roll for armour!" Playing the way you did would've entailed the existence of some house rule.

Lastly, I do think too that you should definitely roll for armour first to see what happens as that is something that you should, in the majority of cases, take into account when planning the remainder of your move.

[Darkson]

You MUST roll an AV break if you knock a player over - there's no if's on that one, so you don't "lose your chance" as your opponent said.
You should roll for AV (and Injury) before completing the Blitz move, as it may be in your favour (you might want to move through the square the opponent is in if you KO/Inj them for example), but completing the Blitz move and then going back to roll AV is fine.

[Grumbledook]

yer i've often reminded my opponent to roll for my players armour that they knocked over

usually to my detriment as i then usually have to move them to somewhere in my dugout ;]

your opponent was technically right that you didn't do it when meant to, but it was rather unsporting of him

if you had gone on and moved loads of other players then he has a case for it, though usually I'd point out the armour roll needed to be done if you then go to move another player

if i forget as well (easily done) then tough luck

though as darkson said it is in your best interest to do the av roll straight away as the rules say, in case you remove the player off the pitch as this may change where you want to use the rest of your movement to move to

[omnimutant]

When people get all technical like that we usually start dropping elbows. AKA foul the crap out of him and Call IP any chance you get. While Obviously technically allowed these are two activities we generally just don't do in our league, but like I said it's technically allowed. So one usually follows the other in a power gamer situation.

[daloonieshaman]

Speaking of AV rolls and foul
Foul like blocking is VERY strategic (oops his big guy is down DOGPILE) as with some help it make breaking the armor easier. And you roll it right away

[simplegame]

Thank you all for the feedback. I will be more careful with rolling before moving the rest of my blitz. But I agree the rules lawyering deserves dropping of the elbow.


--
Simplegame

[plasmoid]

Hi Simplegame,
sounds like your opponent was being a jerk.

Every BB player I've ever played plays that you can "roll back" what you've done, as long as you haven't made any more rolls. So in the case of the blitz, you could move your player back to the prone player, make the roll, and then proceed.

And that's the technical solution.
The sane one is simple that only a jerk would deny you an armour roll like that.

Cheers
Martin