Move 2 and Jump Up

[Coach]

How does movement less than 3 interact with Jump Up?

The Jump Up skill says you don't have to pay the three squares of movement. It doesn't say it overrides the 4+ standing up roll though. Does this mean a player with less than three movement, typically a Treeman has to still roll for standing up, but can then move two squares, or does it mean he can just stand up without having to roll like everyone else?

[daloonieshaman]

You must roll the 4+ as he has less than 3 squares of movement
He may jump up (not using any movement squares) and then move/beat the crap out of someone instead of being able to do nothing else.

[plasmoid]

I'm certain it has been ruled the other way around.

The 4+ rule kicks in when you do not have enough MA to stand. With Jump Up that never happens. That was the rationale AFAIK.

[lerchey]

I have to agree with Plasmoid. Jump Up (in C.R.A.P.):

... may stand up for free without paying the three squares of movement.

"for free" and "without paying" sounds like "at a cost of zero", which is how I've always seen it played. This is one of the reasons that people like it on Treemen. They get to stand up with no die roll (other than any Take Root roll that they might need!).

[Coach]

yes at a cost of zero but it doesn't say if you need to roll the 4+ or not to then be able to use your 2 squares of movement

wording is ambiguous, I am inclined to think it probably does work in that manner though

[daloonieshaman]

I have to agree with Plasmoid. Jump Up (in C.R.A.P.):

... may stand up for free without paying the three squares of movement.

"for free" and "without paying" sounds like "at a cost of zero", which is how I've always seen it played. This is one of the reasons that people like it on Treemen. They get to stand up with no die roll (other than any Take Root roll that they might need!).

Ahh you highlight the error of your ways...

"... may stand up for free without paying the three squares of movement."

but you fail to acknowledge the rules for standing up:

"If the players has less than 3 squares of movement he must roll a 4+ to stand up"

Jump up merely removes the cost of standing ("he may stand up for free without paying the three squares of movement.") it has nothing to do with the penalty of having less than 3 movement
so if a mv 1 or 2 player also has jump up he Rolls 4+ to stand if successful he stills gets to move (and block on an ag roll)

[plasmoid]

I can only say that I've asked previously, because I played a jump up treeman in the MBBL.
Got a ruling back then from Galak or Ian.

Perhaps the distinction that the text does not say "less than MA3" but "less than 3 squares of movement". But what do I know?
Cheers
Martin

[daloonieshaman]

Let me try to make it clearer

Jump up states that instead of 3 movement to stand the 3 movement is free to stand

"you get to stand for free without paying the 3 squares of movement"

you have MV 6 you stand you have 3 left over
you have MV6 AND Jump Up you stand and have 6 left over

You have MV2 you roll 4+ and stand (do nothing else unless you GFI)
you have MV2 AND Jump Up you roll 4+ and stand you have 2 left over (you never had 3 to pay the cost of standing up free or not)

They are 2 entirely seperate concepts
a)cost
prone to standing = 3 squares of movement
Jump Up to standing = The 3 required squares of movement are free
b)Limitation
move < 3 = 4+ (you do not have the 3 required squares to stand up only 2)(sorry not enough quarters for this ride)
Jump Up Block = 2+

[Darkson]

Amazing what you can find by using the search function :
viewtopic.php?f=24&t=23831&hilit=Jump+U ... n&start=15
viewtopic.php?f=24&t=23491&hilit=+Jump+Up+treeman

Treeman with Jump Up does NOT have to make a 4+ roll.

[daloonieshaman]

Cool
your choice

[Teydyn]

Treeman with Jump Up does NOT have to make a 4+ roll.

Unless he wants to throw a Block after Jumping Up without using the Blitz...

[Coach]

FYI I did use the search function, thanks for the link to the clarification, would have been nice if you could have done it without being rude though.

Hope as an admin you aren't this welcoming to every new account, I can see it turning new players away from the forum and possibly the game if they aren't as thick skinned as myself.

[plasmoid]

Hi Coach,
Darkson greets everyone with a 'please use the search function'

@Daloonie, I could see the ruling go either way. I actually think you have the wording on your side
But I understand the ruling the other way - when you can not pay the cost for standing, you need to roll a 4+ to generate the extra MA. With jump up, you can pay for standing up no matter what your MA stat.

Cheers
Martin

[GalakStarscraper]

Martin I would strongly disagree that the wording is on his side.

The rule does not say less than MA 3 ... it says less than 3 squares of movement which is means that its a matter of being able to pay for 3 squares of movement. Since Jump Up says the player gets these squares for free it would mean that you substitute a 0 for the 3 since that deals with the amount of movement needed to pay to stand (ie it should indicate a clear override of the normal written text due to the skill's wording).

So in effect if a Treeman had Jump Up the text on 11 of the CRP would say:

"If the player has less than zero squares of movement, he must roll 4+ to stand up"

In which case the Treeman does not have less than zero and so can stand up like a normal player.

The key here is that standing up references squares of movment and not the actual MA stat of the player.

Galak

[plasmoid]

All good