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Chainsaw with Dirty Player?
Posted: Tue May 25, 2010 11:26 am
by pelle
If I would give mty Chainsaw Dirty Player, do I get to add a +4 to the AV Roll (Or +3 to the AV roll and +1 to the Injury roll)? Or can DP not be combined with a Chainsaw?
Re: Chainsaw with Dirty Player?
Posted: Tue May 25, 2010 11:39 am
by mepmuff
Reading the skill descriptions I don't see anything which says you can't use both modifiers. So I'd assume these stack just fine.
E.T.A.
Competition Rules page 23 wrote:
This section of the rules includes lots more skills for players to
use. The specific rules for each skill can be found on pages
63 to 68. Each entry also lists which category the skill belongs to
(i.e. Passing, General, Mutation, etc). A skill’s category affects
which players can access it, as described later on in the rules for
Blood Bowl leagues (see pages 26 and 27). Unless otherwise
stated in the skill description, the following rules apply to
all skills:
1. All bonuses/modifiers from skills can be combined.
2. Skills may be used an unlimited number of times per Action.
3. Some skills refer to pushing a player back in order to work.
4. Skill use is not mandatory.
5. You can choose to use a skill that affects a dice roll after
6. Only Extraordinary skills work when a player is Prone or
7. A skill may only be taken once per player.
Re: Chainsaw with Dirty Player?
Posted: Tue May 25, 2010 12:32 pm
by Rodge
I read it the same way, both modifiers would apply to a foul action.
Obviously dirty player wouldn't apply to a normal chainsaw attack on a standing opponent.
Re: Chainsaw with Dirty Player?
Posted: Tue May 25, 2010 9:25 pm
by Smeborg
Reading the skill descriptions, Dirty Player is not a mandatory skill, therefore you may choose whether to use it on the Armour or Injury roll (or not at all). So you may foul with a Chainsaw at +4/+0, +3/+1, or +3/+0.
On the other hand, the +3 Armour roll bonus for a foul with a Chainsaw is mandatory (the wording is: "A player armed with a chainsaw may take a Foul Action, and adds 3 to the Armour roll, but must roll for kick back as described above."). So if you have a Chainsaw, you must use it when fouling (you do not have the option of using, say, your boot).
Re: Chainsaw with Dirty Player?
Posted: Wed May 26, 2010 10:38 am
by Pagan
Smeborg wrote:
On the other hand, the +3 Armour roll bonus for a foul with a Chainsaw is mandatory (the wording is: "A player armed with a chainsaw may take a Foul Action, and adds 3 to the Armour roll, but must roll for kick back as described above."). So if you have a Chainsaw, you must use it when fouling (you do not have the option of using, say, your boot).
If I choose to use my Chainsaw skill when throwing a foul, then that text kicks in. Why can't I choose not to use the skill?
It says I MUST use it when Blocking. It doesn't say I MUST use it when throwing a Foul.
Re: Chainsaw with Dirty Player?
Posted: Wed May 26, 2010 12:47 pm
by Rodge
Pagan wrote:If I choose to use my Chainsaw skill when throwing a foul, then that text kicks in. Why can't I choose not to use the skill?
It says I MUST use it when Blocking. It doesn't say I MUST use it when throwing a Foul.
Yes it does.
"A player armed with a chainsaw may take a Foul Action, and adds 3 to the Armour roll, but must roll for kick back as described above"
To me this says that if you choose to attempt a foul with the chainsaw player - you automatically use the chainsaw (hence the +3). It does say you "must" roll for kickback. So there's no choice involved.
Re: Chainsaw with Dirty Player?
Posted: Wed May 26, 2010 2:37 pm
by funnyfingers
Another way to read this is to take out the subordinate clause as it is related but a complete sentence is still there when taken out.
"A player armed with a chainsaw may take a Foul Action, and adds 3 to the Armour roll, but must roll for kick back as described above."
becomes
"A player armed with a chainsaw may take a Foul Action but must roll for kick back as described above."
*not sure if that really is called a subordinate clause. Reaching back to middle school here.
Re: Chainsaw with Dirty Player?
Posted: Wed May 26, 2010 7:34 pm
by Odium Khan
Chainsaw with Sneaky Git. Mmmmm... You would quite easily be able to reach the magic AV4 which is the lowest odds of being ejected on a foul on a successful armour break using Sneaky Git (at 30%).
AV / Ejected on AV / Ejected on AV or Inj
---------------------
AV10 33% 50%
AV9 33% 50%
AV8 20% 37%
AV7 20% 37%
AV6 14% 31%
AV5 15% 32%
AV4 13% 30%
AV3 15% 32%
Av2 14% 31%
AV1 17% 33%
Re: Chainsaw with Dirty Player?
Posted: Wed May 26, 2010 8:11 pm
by Pagan
"A player armed with a chainsaw may take a Foul Action, and adds 3 to the Armour roll, but must roll for kick back as described above"
No part of that sentence is forcing me to use the Chainsaw skill during a Foul Action. It is saying I can use this skill to get a +3 to the Foul Action. Look at the wording of when you throw a Block with Chainsaw.
It should say, "A player armed with a Chainsaw MUST use it during a Foul Action."
I'm not sure what the intent of the skill ever was, but looking at it like this it seems like you have the option of Fouling as normal, or Fouling using the Chainsaw. I'm hard pressed to see a scenario when you wouldn't use it though.
Re: Chainsaw with Dirty Player?
Posted: Wed May 26, 2010 8:13 pm
by lerchey
While I can't find anything wrong with the logic, having read through the rules myself, I have to wonder if it was intentional to allow DP to add the +1 to a Foul when using a Chainsaw. I'd love to see a response from Galak.
Re: Chainsaw with Dirty Player?
Posted: Wed May 26, 2010 10:22 pm
by Darkson
I'm in the "if you foul with a 'saw, you HAVE to add the +3 and roll for KB" camp.
Re: Chainsaw with Dirty Player?
Posted: Wed May 26, 2010 11:58 pm
by daloonieshaman
Pagan wrote:"A player armed with a chainsaw may take a Foul Action, and adds 3 to the Armour roll, but must roll for kick back as described above"
No part of that sentence is forcing me to use the Chainsaw skill during a Foul Action. It is saying I can use this skill to get a +3 to the Foul Action. Look at the wording of when you throw a Block with Chainsaw.
It should say, "A player armed with a Chainsaw MUST use it during a Foul Action."
I'm not sure what the intent of the skill ever was, but looking at it like this it seems like you have the option of Fouling as normal, or Fouling using the Chainsaw. I'm hard pressed to see a scenario when you wouldn't use it though.
it is in the wording that you may foul, add 3 to armor roll, MUST roll kickback
so lets translate
IF YOU CHOOSE TO FOUL:
(Dude by simple definition you are using the saw)
Re: Chainsaw with Dirty Player?
Posted: Thu May 27, 2010 12:02 am
by Pug
Darkson wrote:I'm in the "if you foul with a 'saw, you HAVE to add the +3 and roll for KB" camp.
Ditto..
If I was a green skinned, mad b@st' holding a michine of whirling metal death and I had a choice of finishing off a player on the ground with my boot or it.......hmmmm.....*CHUNG-CHUNG-CHUNG.....WHAAAAAAAAAAAAA....SLURRRRGE!*
Re: Chainsaw with Dirty Player?
Posted: Thu May 27, 2010 8:05 am
by Pagan
it is in the wording that you may foul, add 3 to armor roll, MUST roll kickback
so lets translate
IF YOU CHOOSE TO FOUL:
+3 armor
roll Kickback
(Dude by simple definition you are using the saw)
First sentence of Chainsaw. A player armed with a chainsaw MUST attack with it instead of making a block as part of a Block or Blitz Action. No mention of being forced to use it to take a Foul Action. The only time Fouling is mentioned is when it says I MAY use it to Foul to get +3 to the Armor roll. No other part of the Chainsaw skill says I can't foul as normal.
Re: Chainsaw with Dirty Player?
Posted: Thu May 27, 2010 11:10 am
by GalakStarscraper
However ... you guys saying it is optional are missing the important word ... ACTION.
The May in this case in that sentence is not a choice but a permission. It is not:
"you may choose to do this or that"
it is:
"you may now have cake since you finished your peas"
In other words ... it is saying that a player with the Chainsaw skill has permission to take a Foul Action ... however the very act of declaring the action means he's going to be adding +3 to the AV roll and rolling for kickback.
You cannot choose to not use Chainsaw on a foul ... it is required by the skill description.
You can choose to mix Dirty Player with Chainsaw.
Tom