Tentacles and Dodge/Leap

[Gimli]

Apologies if this has been asked before, but if a player attempts to dodge away from a Tentacles player, am I correct that they have to first pass the Tentacles roll (i.e. fail to be held firm by the Tentacles player), and then roll their dodge or leap in the normal manner? I've seen the rule played that if you pass the Tentacles roll then that is all the player has to do. Surely you still have to successfully dodge as well?

[Oxynot]

You are in the right. Nowhere in Tentacles description does it say that the roll is instead of a Dodge/Leap roll.

Otherwise one could argue that all you had to do to knock down a Foul Appearance player was to make that 2+ roll

[Insane_Prophet]

You are in the right. Nowhere in Tentacles description does it say that the roll is instead of a Dodge/Leap roll.

Otherwise one could argue that all you had to do to knock down a Foul Appearance player was to make that 2+ roll

Making Foul Appearance the single most crippling negatrait in the game and the only one that could be selected as a skill up.

[Wanchor]

Is it written somewhere whether Tentacles is rolled before the Dodge roll?

[Digger Goreman]

Tentacles (Mutation)
The player may attempt to use this skill when an opposing player
attempts to dodge or leap out of any of his tackle zones. The opposing
player rolls 2D6 adding their own player’s ST and subtracting the
Tentacles player's ST from the score. If the final result is 5 or less, then
the moving player is held firm, and his action ends immediately. If a
player attempts to leave the tackle zone of several players that have the
Tentacles ability, then only one of the opposing players may attempt to
grab him with the tentacles.

[Wanchor]

Yes, I've read the skill description. Anything else?

[Xeterog]

you roll tentacles when a player attempts to leave a square in your TZ.

You roll a dodge roll when you leave a square in an opponents TZ.

So, you attempt to leave the TZ of a Tentacle player..Tentacles is rolled..if you are grabbed, and you lose your action. since you never actually left an opponent's TZ, you do not have to roll a dodge roll.

[Digger Goreman]

Xeterog's excellent re-wording is exactly what the emphasis and shading spell out in the skill description....

Yes, I've read the skill description. Anything else?

No, the obvious is rather... obvious....

[Wanchor]

Whether the Tentacles coach has the prerogative to wait for the Dodge roll result before declaring his use of Tentacles, a la Diving Tackle and Shadowing, is the crux of the issue. It's come up in our league and has caused some debate.

[Darkson]

If the player makes the Dodge roll before the tentacles roll, they've left the tents TZ, so tents can't be used.
You don't roll to see if you can Dodge, you roll to see if you have Dodged.

[Digger Goreman]

*Steps into the mine field* But, if he attempts to dodge (declares his intention) then the tentacles player gets the chance to declare the skill's use....

So, in using Diving Tackle/Tackle, etc., you do so after the dice roll... (and somewhere it says that when both coaches wish to use a skill, the phasing coach does so first).... But the skill description overrides that....

In short: Tentacles goes first upon dodge declaration....

Or:
1) My Ghoul attempts to dodge...
2) My BON uses tentacles *rolls defensive skill dice*
3a) My tentacles hold you and the Ghoul's action ends. or
3b) My tentacles fail and you roll your dodge attempt... *rolls offensive skill dice*

Now, IF the BON also had Diving Tackle:
1) My Ghoul attempts to dodge...
2) My BON uses tentacles *rolls defensive skill dice*
3a) My tentacles hold you and the Ghoul's action ends. or
3b) My tentacles fail and you roll your dodge attempt... *rolls offensive skill dice*
4) Auto-success on a 6, or a high enough roll and I'm currently succeeding....
5) My BON uses diving tackle (if possible to lower your roll to a failure)....
6) My Ghoul uses Dodge (or a team reroll) to reroll the dodge die....
7a) A 6 is rolled and the Dodge is ultimately successful!
7b) A lesser roll is sufficient to Dodge even with the Diving Tackle modifier!
or
7c) The second roll is a 1, or not high enough to overcome the Diving Tackle modifier....
BON player rolls armor dice....

[Wanchor]

If the player makes the Dodge roll before the tentacles roll, they've left the tents TZ, so tents can't be used.
You don't roll to see if you can Dodge, you roll to see if you have Dodged.

Technically, the player leaves the tackle zone before the coach even picks up the dice to roll a dodge. I understand that it may have been intended that Tentacles be used first, but I can't find anything specifically stating so.

*Steps into the mine field* But, if he attempts to dodge (declares his intention) then the tentacles player gets the chance to declare the skill's use....

So, in using Diving Tackle/Tackle, etc., you do so after the dice roll... (and somewhere it says that when both coaches wish to use a skill, the phasing coach does so first)....

Yeah, that's the reasoning employed by the 'Dodge first' camp.

[Xeterog]

Technically, the player leaves the tackle zone before the coach even picks up the dice to roll a dodge. I understand that it may have been intended that Tentacles be used first, but I can't find anything specifically stating so.

Exactly..before they can even leave the TZ of the tentacle player, the tentacle player gets to use his skill to prevent you from leaving the square. If you get stuck by the tentacle player, then your action ends, you don't leave the square and no dodge roll is needed (or required). Once you leave the square, you see if you successfully dodged to that square by making your dodge roll

Note that when you dodge, whether you are successful or not, you end up in the square you were moving to. (same with a GFI or a Leap...or even a GFI Leap )

If you were grabbed by tentacles, you can't end up in the square you were dodging to at all.

[plasmoid]

Diving Tackle isn't truly used after the dodge. It's used on the dodge. It's a skill that modifies a roll, and per the basic rules for skill use it can be used after seeing the roll.

But the dodge isn't really over. If my human rolls a 3 for a dodge, then diving tackle would give me the option to reroll and potentially succeed. So the dodge wasn't over yet.

Other than that, I think Xeterog has stated it rather clearly:
You don't pick up the dice for dodging until after the miniature has been moved.
If you fail the tentacles roll then the skill says "move ends", it does not say "move the miniature back". I.e. the miniature had not yet been moved, and the dodge sequence had not been started.

Cheers
Martin

[Digger Goreman]

If the player makes the Dodge roll before the tentacles roll, they've left the tents TZ, so tents can't be used.
You don't roll to see if you can Dodge, you roll to see if you have Dodged.

Technically, the player leaves the tackle zone before the coach even picks up the dice to roll a dodge. I understand that it may have been intended that Tentacles be used first, but I can't find anything specifically stating so.

*Steps into the mine field* But, if he attempts to dodge (declares his intention) then the tentacles player gets the chance to declare the skill's use....

So, in using Diving Tackle/Tackle, etc., you do so after the dice roll... (and somewhere it says that when both coaches wish to use a skill, the phasing coach does so first)....

Yeah, that's the reasoning employed by the 'Dodge first' camp.

Elven "coaches"... no doubt....