Line-Elf dilemma, Wrestle v Block

[axiom]

I'm looking at upskilling a standard Line-Elf for my Woodies and have been reading up on recommended skills. Wrestle seems to be a popular choice, although I'm struggling to see why Wrestle should be taken in favour of Block; the only time Wrestle seems to be better is if your opponent has Block. Can anyone shed some light?

[lunchmoney]

wrestle or block, block or wrestle.... its a tough one.
for me it depends on the league you are in. if there is no one else with lots of block, take block. if its norse/dwarf heavy, or just everyone is taking block, then choose wrestle.
wrestle has the advantage of being able to take down someone with block.
for eg. you blitz the ball carrier. you both have block. both down result ends up with both players looking at each other in a funny way.
now same scenario, but you have wrestle. rather than giving each other the evil eye, your line elf is now on the floor, playing touchy-feely with the other guy. and the ball is now loose and bouncing around ready for your own ball carrier to run in and scoop it up.

me? i choose wrestle over block in league play.

[inkpwn]

I would take block over wrestle on a wood elf, mainly because of the the fact that AV7 players are foul magnets. Also if the opponent does have block and you both remain standing its only a 2+ to get away, which is better than a -3 movement penalty in my book.

It is nice to take wrestle on a couple wood elves to open gaps but it not a priority.
I would also tend to be less agressive with the lineman anyway and give them dodge as their defensive skill seeing as its an active skill and combines nicely with fend.

[Ulthuan_Express]

Block is never really a bad skill to take, it is pretty much the best in the entire game. Wrestle, however, is a good Block-breaker, and with the innate speed of Wood Elves, makes it very attractive. Not only do you nullify the opposing blocker, but you're probably faster than them anyway, making getting up off the floor and running away far easier. Just don't get fouled while you're down there.

Wrestle works well with Tackle to have a Safety-type player who can take down a ball carrier (by at least putting them on the floor), while for a flat-out lineman (the Expendable Bob, Expendable Jeff and Expendable Fred that every Elf team needs) then Wrestle goes well with Fend.

[Smurf]

Line = wrestle

All the way. You knock holes in their defence that you can exploit. The biggest and meanest players can be put on the floor and you can speed round them.

You may want to look at the WE play book on this site too, it has been criticised but I'm coming up with a final draft.

Wood Elf: Tao Parkour Style!

[Coach]

It does depend somewhat on your common opponents, my Wood Elf Lineman article may be of some use to you.

http://bbtactics.com/wood-elf-linemen/

[txapo]

if you have sklilled all your team in a league i would place three wresle elf on the line. So if someone with out block hits you you can get a turnover or make him expend a RR. If he's got block you can open a gap for your turns exploits.

[axiom]

So the general gist of it is that it's a toss-up? Some line-elfs with Block and some with Wrestle, albeit they have differing advantages/disadvantages depending on the situation. Would it would be fair to say that I wouldn't go wrong with a mix?

[lunchmoney]

So the general gist of it is that it's a toss-up? Some line-elfs with Block and some with Wrestle, albeit they have differing advantages/disadvantages depending on the situation. Would it would be fair to say that I wouldn't go wrong with a mix?

yep
It really does come down to a) personal choice, and b) situation with other teams in league.

[Ulthuan_Express]

So the general gist of it is that it's a toss-up? Some line-elfs with Block and some with Wrestle, albeit they have differing advantages/disadvantages depending on the situation. Would it would be fair to say that I wouldn't go wrong with a mix?

For the line: Wrestle. Or maybe take Block.
For other places: Block. Or maybe take Wrestle.

Personal preference, really, depending on what sort of skills the teams you're likely to face have. If everyone is taking Block, then Wrestle will mix it up and neutralise them. If they're taking all sorts of different skills (or a variety of wildly different teams) then Block may be a good way to go.

You've got three Line-elves, so why not mix em up with a Block and a couple of Wrestlers, or vice-versa.

[Stout Youngblood]

For speed teams having lino's with Wrestle is great. As a woodie coach you have the 2nd fastest team. Wrestle makes holes to be exploited and forcing a -3MA on your opponent when they stand up. Also, by forcing them to stand up, that is one less block against your team.

As a Slann coach, my league was bewildered that after a 16 game season, I had very few dodge or block on my team, yet they won the championship. My Blitzers had wrestle and strip ball and were incredible effective in getting the ball loose leaving catchers to exploit the loose ball.

[Smeborg]

I find the main use of Wrestle is as a ball-hunting skill, rather than on the defensive LoS. Wrestle comes into its own when it is on your fastest and most mobile Blitzer types.

The Woodies are slight odd in the Wrestle era, in that their best Blitzer types (Wardancers) start with Block. In an ideal world they would have Wrestle instead. The HE and Elf teams have MA8 Catchers who make ideal Blitzers (ball-hunters), starting with Dodge, Wrestle. The DEs have the Witches, who are also great candidates for Wrestle (they make better ball-hunters than the Blitzers).

On a developed WE team, the Linos actually make better ball-hunters than the Wardancers, starting as they do with excellent stats (7347 would be a positional player on any other team), and being able to take Wrestle without skill redundancy. So this makes a case for Wrestle on the Linos.

However, what do you give WE Linos on doubles? I believe the best skill is Guard. This combines quite a bit better with Block than with Wrestle. So this makes a case for Block on the Linos.

I believe you can solve the problem by giving the Linos Dodge as first skill. This leaves the options open for Guard+Block. Thus:

- First skill normal, take Dodge. Second skill normal, take Wrestle, to be followed by Tackle.
- First skill normal, take Dodge. Second skill doubles, take Guard, to be followed by Block.
- First skill doubles, take Guard, to be followed by Block and Dodge.

As well as giving 11 Dodge players in a short time, all AG4/MA7+, this will likely give you some hyper-mobile Guard players.

I have not yet tested this development strategy in a proper league season.

Hope that helps.

[axiom]

Thanks everyone for the advice and interesting thoughts. So far with my team (after 4 games), I have a line-elf with Block and another with Kick.

I believe you can solve the problem by giving the Linos Dodge as first skill. This leaves the options open for Guard+Block. Thus:

- First skill normal, take Dodge. Second skill normal, take Wrestle, to be followed by Tackle.
- First skill normal, take Dodge. Second skill doubles, take Guard, to be followed by Block.
- First skill doubles, take Guard, to be followed by Block and Dodge.

That's a usefully put guide - I can develop my current Block line-elf (by adding Dodge/Guard), but start building the others with a flexible system depending on what I roll. The end result should give me 3 scrimmaging line-elves with Block/Guard/Dodge and the remainder with a combination of Dodge/Wrestle/Tackle (and/or Fend/Strip Ball).

BTW, any thoughts on Dauntless? I'm facing Orcs, Lizardmen and Chaos. Is Dauntless a viable option on a line-elf (perhaps a Block variety?).

[Smurf]

I'm trying to get 4 dauntless guys.

Yes it throughs the big teams off a bit, when suddenly it's a 2db against the BOB/CW/Werewolf etc...

[dines]

I wouldn't put guard elves on the line, they just get killed and most opponents will still get 2 dice against them all anyways.

Regarding dauntless, I can see the use of one or maybe two (after block/wrestle depending on their job), but theres so many nice skills for elves, so wouldn't take more than that.