Re-rolls and end of turn

[Smeborg]

The following came up the other night:

- Failed pick-up

- Bouncing ball

- Chance to catch the bouncing ball by player on the "moving team"

My question is: Can the player use a Team Re-roll to catch the bouncing ball? I know that failure to pick up a ball is "automatically" a turnover, but that does not exactly resolve the question of whether the re-roll can be used (which seems to relate rather to the question of when, from a rules point of view, the turnover occurs or takes effect).

I ruled (I am league commish) that there was a turnover, but that the Team Re-roll could be used. I admit to being lazy - I did not attempt to consult the rulebook at the time.

Any help would be appreciated.

[daloonieshaman]

short answer
no you may use a player skill reroll
but because the turnover ends the turn you may not use a team reroll

ahhh on the question of re-rolls

[Greyhound]

Heavily debated discussion about when does a turn ends... expect bloodlust rule to be mentioned at some point if we go over 2 pages

[TalonBay]

short answer
no you may use a player skill reroll
but because the turnover ends the turn you may not use a team reroll

ahhh on the question of re-rolls

Does this mean then that the opponent gets to use his re-rolls on a bouncing ball?

I would have ruled as the OP did here, it's still the moving players turn until the ball stops so he can use a team RR.

Assuming the turnover means that it's the opponents turn before the bouncing ball stops, when happens if it's then caught by the original team for a TD? Is this a score in the opposition turn then?

[Darkson]

I carry on playing it the way I've always played it:

You fumble the pick-up, your turn ends so you can't use TRR, you resolve the scatter (in which player Skill Rerolls CAN be used [for either side]), then the opposing team turn starts.

If the moving (read: fumbling) team is lucky enough to score from the scatter, I ruled they scored in their own "turn", as the opponents hadn't started.

[Xeterog]

I would think that you could use a TRR.

turnover says:

A coach that suffers a turnover is not allowed to take any further
actions that turn, and any action being taken ends immediately
even if it was only partially completed. Make armour and injury
rolls for players that were knocked down, and if the ball was
dropped then roll to see where it bounces too normally. Stunned
players should be turned face up, and then the opposing coach
may start to take their turn.

Just because you can't take any more actions, does not mean it is not still your turn.

Note that the opposing coach does not start their turn until the 'clean up' is completed..(ie..ball comes to rest, AV/INJ rolls made, stunned players flipped over)

The play sequence (simple but strict) is:
A)Receiving Team's Turn
B)Kicking Team's Turn

It is not
Receiving team's turn
between turns
Kicking Team's turn
between turns

so, IMO, it is almost always 'your turn' or 'your opponents turn'

Kickoff events are an exception..but besides the Blitz result (which one team does get a free turn in all respects), the only roll a player gets to make is to catch the ball or not outside of a team turn.

--edit: Many of the card introduce a 'between turns' terminology (play after your turn ends, play before your opponents turn starts, etc), but I do not believe that this is seen outside of the cards themselves.

[Kolja_TBBF]

I think you can use a team reroll.
The picked up isn't actually 'failed' until you have exhausted your reroll options, either through the use of surehands or a team reroll. If you use a team reroll and succeed, the pick up was never actually failed, was it?

[Anthony_TBBF]

If your opponent is hit by a bus on the way to a game, does he have to forfeit?

[Pagan]

If your opponent is hit by a bus on the way to a game, does he have to forfeit?

Record it as a 7-0 victory with 10 CAS and 6 interceptions.

Who is going to argue?

[daloonieshaman]

can you use a team RR during a kickoff?

Anyone can use a player skill RR during a bouncing ball and other things., (Kickoff for one)

[Greyhound]

can you use a team RR during a kickoff?

What player roll would you reroll? The only action a player can take in the kick off event is a catch roll, right?

Considering that the kick off event end before the ball land I don't see the use case where it would happen.

[daloonieshaman]

can you use a team RR during a kickoff?

What player roll would you reroll? The only action a player can take in the kick off event is a catch roll, right?

Considering that the kick off event end before the ball land I don't see the use case where it would happen.

my point exactly

[Ullis]

I think you can use a team reroll.
The picked up isn't actually 'failed' until you have exhausted your reroll options, either through the use of surehands or a team reroll. If you use a team reroll and succeed, the pick up was never actually failed, was it?

There's a difference between picking up and catching the ball. When the ball is on the ground and you move a player over it, the player tries to pick up the ball. Sure Hands, Extra Arms and Big Hand come into play here. If the pick up fails the ball bounces and another player can catch it. With a catch you can use skills such as Catch, Nerves of Steel, Extra Arms and Disturbing Presence.

This question was about using the reroll on the catch attempt, not on the pick up roll.

[daloonieshaman]

yes and we have answered the question of catching the bouncing ball and rerolls.
You cannot use a team re-roll to catch the ball
you may use a skill reroll (in this case catch)

[Dzerards]

Well for what it's worth, was playing Cyanide last night, and it give me the option to use a reroll to catch a bouncing ball after I failed a pick up.